Template talk:Fascism

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Re:Trumpism

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For anyone coming here from my edit summary or elsewhere, there is an ongoing discussion about whether Trumpism should be classified as fascism at Talk:Trumpism#RFC: Should the fascism template be included in the article?. Please discuss this subject there instead of going back and forth in the edit logs. ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System (talk) 11:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230308115900","author":"Arctic Circle System","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Arctic_Circle_System-20230308115900-Re:Trumpism","replies":["c-FeralOink-20240212141200-Arctic_Circle_System-20230308115900"]}}-->

No! That is absurd. It is an extremely one-sided viewpoint and is espoused by an extremely small group of extremists. I will say no more here, and thank you for linking to the appropriate place to comment. By the way, Arctic Circle System, you've done a good job with this template. You are vigilant and impartial from what I can tell so far!--FeralOink (talk) 14:12, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240212141200","author":"FeralOink","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FeralOink-20240212141200-Arctic_Circle_System-20230308115900","replies":["c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010000-FeralOink-20240212141200"]}}-->

@FeralOink: I wouldn't say that viewpoint is limited to an extremely small group of extremists and would personally argue that the movement is at least heavily linked with modern fascist movements in the United States via the alt-right, but I am not qualified to say much more on the subject. I do appreciate the compliment though. Arctic Circle System (talk) 01:00, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240213010000","author":"Arctic Circle System","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010000-FeralOink-20240212141200","replies":["c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010200-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010000"]}}-->

It seemed a bit more prominent than just being espoused by an extremely small group of extremists from what I remember, though I'll admit my memory isn't great, and I think I might be thinking of discussion of his links with the alt-right in general rather than neo-fascism specifically. Arctic Circle System (talk) 01:02, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240213010200","author":"Arctic Circle System","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010200-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010000","replies":["c-FeralOink-20240213055400-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010200"]}}-->

You're welcome for the compliment, Arctic Circle System! This is a very contentious topic, and I see from the page history that you've been responsible and diligent. Also, you're right, about a lot of prominent people describing Trumpism as fascist (although I don't think many of the 60 or 70 million Americans who voted for him in the 2020 election consider him to be). Regardless, I made my opinion known on the linked discussion page, which hadn't seen a new entry since April 2023. I just don't want Donald Trump himself to show up in the fascism template by name lol! At least, not without consensus but I'd rather not even think about it for now. Also, I think you're correct about associating some figures on the alt-right with fascism, although Trump has no allegiance to them. We won't list Kanye as an American fascist either for now (double lol!)--FeralOink (talk) 05:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240213055400","author":"FeralOink","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-FeralOink-20240213055400-Arctic_Circle_System-20240213010200","replies":[]}}-->

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2023

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Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2023

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This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Request to add

• Hideki Tojo 223.25.74.34 (talk) 11:30, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20231223113000","author":"223.25.74.34","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-223.25.74.34-20231223113000-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_23_December_2023","replies":["c-Rotary_Engine-20231223123200-223.25.74.34-20231223113000"]}}-->

 Not done Please establish a consensus for inclusion of this material. Rotary Engine ^talk 12:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20231223123200","author":"Rotary Engine","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rotary_Engine-20231223123200-223.25.74.34-20231223113000","replies":[]}}-->

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How many people should be associated with fascism in a country on this template for said country to have its own subsection in the People section?

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I'm not sure where the line should be here. Arctic Circle System (talk) 11:37, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240114113700","author":"Arctic Circle System","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240114113700-How_many_people_should_be_associated_with_fascism_in_a_country_on_this_template_","replies":["c-Trakking-20240114121400-Arctic_Circle_System-20240114113700"]}}-->

Good question; I'd say at least five but preferably six or seven, because a plethora of short lists would give the template an awkward look.

Just make sure the people added are fairly notable. Some people are extremely obscure judging by factors such as meagre articles with no sources, articles that exist in a very low number of languages (1-5), very low pageviews etc. They simply do not qualify for representation, if the list is supposed to remain concise and relevant.

Then there's the question of inclusion. Were Carl Schmitt and Francisco Franco true fascists? Scholars usually identify them as exponents of authoritarian conservatism, which is a separate ideology—more elitist, more pre-modern. Trakking (talk) 12:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240114121400","author":"Trakking","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Trakking-20240114121400-Arctic_Circle_System-20240114113700","replies":["c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240114194800-Trakking-20240114121400","c-Death_Editor_2-20240119041500-Trakking-20240114121400"]}}-->

@Trakking:I can't say I'm too confident one way or another, honestly. Arctic Circle System (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240114194800","author":"Arctic Circle System","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Arctic_Circle_System-20240114194800-Trakking-20240114121400","replies":[]}}-->

Carl Schmitt was a member of the Nazi party, so if he's not a fascist nobody is. Death Editor 2 (talk) 04:15, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240119041500","author":"Death Editor 2","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Death_Editor_2-20240119041500-Trakking-20240114121400","replies":["c-FeralOink-20240212140900-Death_Editor_2-20240119041500"]}}-->

IF you use membership in the Nazi party as a criteria for fascists to be added to the template, all sorts of people will need to be added, including lots of people from the Ukraine (which reminds me that I need to check if Stepan Bandera is included). I'm not sure about Schmitt. Schmitt should be included. Francisco Franco is known as a fascist, although I concur with what Trakking said. We should probably be consistent with what is in their WP biographies, too.--FeralOink (talk) 14:09, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240212140900","author":"FeralOink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-FeralOink-20240212140900-Death_Editor_2-20240119041500","replies":[]}}-->

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Added a Ukraine subcategory with 4 members

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Three were pre-existing in the Other group, and I added one. I will look to see if I can find any additions. Four seems to be sufficient for a country entry. Also, with the visibility of Ukraine and fascistic ideologues in western Ukraine recently (e.g. Yaroslav_Hunka scandal in Canadian Parliament) it seems remiss not to break out separately. FeralOink (talk) 15:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240212150500","author":"FeralOink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FeralOink-20240212150500-Added_a_Ukraine_subcategory_with_4_members","replies":[]}}-->

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Pinochet? Latin American dictators

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Do you think Augusto Pinochet (Chile) and Alberto Fujimori (Peru) should be in the People section of fascists? Pinochet's article has a whole section on how he was fascistic but the conclusion seems to be he is a "neoliberal". I am spending too much time on fascism so I'm just going to leave this thought for the consideration of those who follow. FeralOink (talk) 15:16, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240217151600","author":"FeralOink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FeralOink-20240217151600-Pinochet?_Latin_American_dictators","replies":["c-Trakking-20240217172900-FeralOink-20240217151600"]}}-->

The term fascism gets thrown around a lot, but neither Pinochet nor Fujimori was a fascist according to the standard criteria set by Stanley G. Payne and other experts on fascism. The populist, revolutionary, utopian nationalism, which is at the core of fascism, did not manifest itself in Pinochetism and Fujimorism. Both leaders espoused neoliberalism—an ideology diametrically opposed to the totalitarian fascist state. Trakking (talk) 17:29, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240217172900","author":"Trakking","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Trakking-20240217172900-FeralOink-20240217151600","replies":[]}}-->