Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sumo

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Takerufuji

I'm starting to do an article on Takerufuji in one of my sandboxes. Has anyone already created a draft article on him? - OtharLuin (talk) 09:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On that note, the article is now in the main space :) - OtharLuin (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Actually a little surprised that he didn't have an article in the works. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's the kind of thing that happens when a prodigy jumps a whole division in one tournament :D - OtharLuin (talk) 16:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sumo news + Takerufuji²

I just wanted to notify WP members that tokoyama is now considered a Good Article :)

Looking over the WP's Assessments page, I was also wondering about the chances of promoting Takerufuji to Wikipedia:In the news after his historical championship? Who here had already submitted articles for ITN? - OtharLuin (talk) 07:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have submitted a few. It would be a long shot, but I think it might be worth a try. I remember Hakuho's retirement was nominated, but did not get consensus. (Generally sports retirements are not considered noteworthy enough because they can be reversed....) Takerufuji's record has been picked up outside Japan, eg [1] which is in its favour. Incidentally, any yokozuna promotion is assumed to be noteworthy for ITN per Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It could indeed be complicated... I don't know if there are any article quality requirements for proposing an ITN either. Could you take a look at the article and tell me what you think of its overall condition? It would be a good idea not to delay too long, to avoid going overboard and proposing the article late after the end of the tournament. - OtharLuin (talk) 10:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I proposed a nomination, a hook is also on the Talk page - OtharLuin (talk) 10:51, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Follow-up: the nomination failed. I can't help but be a little bitter about the opinions of some W:ITN members especially when in the course of the month news like the 2024 NCAA Division I women's basketball championship game manages to be on the front page without the slightest difficulty... - OtharLuin (talk) 12:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's ITN/R, so presumed to be notable and only judged on article quality. College sports are big in the US I guess. We could get Akebono posted to the Recent Deaths section, but a lot of his post-sumo career needs more citations. Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's probably true, but I still find it frustrating that the users who vote in ITN are making us heavily dependent on a rule established over 10 years ago and which grants us only 0.3 nominations per year when most sports (even the most incongruous) are entitled to at least two (annual men's and women's competitions)...

This brings me to the point about Akebono, the subject is already discussed here ;) - OtharLuin (talk) 12:32, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I see some supports but it won't get posted until more references are added. Unfortunately it's mostly the pro wrestling section which is not my area of interest :) I'll see what I can do. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:37, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SUMO conventions

I'm thinking about this project I had about WP:SUMO conventions after @ArguaBILL: added some yesterday. Since I've been here, I've seen that @JRHorse: and I have slightly different presentation conventions, or even that @Zeyes: also had his own interpretation on the standardization of infoboxes. I'm not even talking about the hazardous assessment ranking

Do you think it would be a good idea for us to discuss the WP conventions in a little more detail on the talk page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Sumo/Conventions? This could take the form of a question on the subjects already mentioned and voting 'support' or 'oppose' or adding another idea, as is already done for front page nomination processes?

Adding the most active members to this discussion : @Pawnkingthree:, @FourTildes:, @Hidenotora:, @Kaiketsu:, @Tigerboy1966:

I think it's quite reasonable to reach a consensus even before the May tournament. - OtharLuin (talk) 09:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perfectly happy to have such a discussion, I think's been about 15 years since we had one :) Would suggest leaving a notification here though once it starts, as I doubt many people watch that page. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I meant to add a response here... I put two suggestions out to the talk page yesterday. JRHorse (talk) 12:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's the start of the May tournament.. should more consensus be needed, or should some of the changes go ahead? JRHorse (talk) 11:56, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I honestly don't know, there's around six frequent users at WP:SUMO but only half of them participated, myself included. I think it's a good basis for a convention though - OtharLuin (talk) 13:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now that we're in July, was wondering about revisiting this and ask if anyone had additional comments or thoughts. JRHorse (talk) 21:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any further thoughts about this? JRHorse (talk) 17:11, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kotozakura Masakatsu II

I also posted on the respective talk page but.. Kotonowaka's ring name is now Kotozakura Masakatsu. Just wanted to confirm before I move the page that the name of the article should now be Kotozakura Masakatsu II. JRHorse (talk) 21:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing the discussion over on that talk page since a thought came up. JRHorse (talk) 04:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Japan Sumo Association rework

Hello everyone, it's now mid-2024 and I've come up with the idea of reworking the article on the Japan Sumo Association because the association's centenary is fast approaching = its first official version, the All Japan Sumo Association, was founded in 1925 (on 9 December according to the Japanese article).

I've started to simplify/clarify the article on my sandbox but I'd like a bit of help, particularly to improve text quotation. The Japanese article isn't much help, and I'm coming to the end of the WP bibliography to complete the rest of the work. Even if we have the time, it would be good if it was a group project, especially so that it could be mentioned in WP:OTD. - OtharLuin (talk) 13:47, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nakamura stable (2024)

Ping to @OtharLuin, @ArguaBILL and others, I've drafted an article on the new Nakamura stable. JRHorse (talk) 23:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very good start; I almost feel it's ready for publication already. ArguaBILL (talk) 10:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello JR, very solid start. I'll see if I can add some articles on the early rumors of the Nakamura break off. I think there was a Nikkan Sports article on that at the moment of a talk show event at the JSA. - OtharLuin (talk) 10:23, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Should there be a disambig page for both Nakamura articles? JRHorse (talk) 10:54, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think so; the Japanese Wikipedia article contains information on both the active and the defunct stables, something which is sometimes done when article subjects share the exact same name down to the exact kanji used. ArguaBILL (talk) 15:14, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know they do that on ja.wiki, but the two stables are entirely separate lineages with no connection to each other. We should keep them as separate articles. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, merging both incarnations would be against every norms I know in descriptive standards - OtharLuin (talk) 16:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just following up on this to see what are the next steps? JRHorse (talk) 11:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks ok to move to mainspace. Not a huge amount more than can be added now, but what's there is fine. Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:53, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Submitted. JRHorse (talk) 03:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The draft has been rejected for inadequate sources… JRHorse (talk) 20:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have added more references and a paragraph about Nakamura's stable untraditional training methods. Was wondering if someone could please give a look and update/add any additional information before I resubmit the draft. JRHorse (talk) 20:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added some other details from references and resubmitted. JRHorse (talk) 23:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While still waiting for the second draft review, the stable's accommodations and training techniques as mentioned in the article have been featured in a video on the Sumo Association's official English-language YouTube channel, SUMO Prime Time. I believe it checks off all the requirements per the WP:VIDEOLINK flowchart, but wanted to ask for a second opinion. JRHorse (talk) 14:31, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. Earlier today (UTC+1), @Iothil edited the Nakamura stable article and, although it was the wrong article, they said they were going to take a look at Draft:Nakamura stable (2024). The edit they made was pretty good too. Anyway I'm not opposed in using Sumo Prime Time although the edit should mention it's the official JSA youtube channel. - OtharLuin (talk) 16:13, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's what I had in mind. I'll go ahead and add it. Also thanks for the heads up about the edit. JRHorse (talk) 22:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Adding Sumo Prime Time as a source makes sense, it doesn't get anymore official than that, imho. Thx for the edit! Article looks good! Iothil (talk) 06:38, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Approved!

Hi everyone, I am still on "wikibreak" for a little while longer, but I came back today because I was informed that the Nakamura Stable article was finally approved out of Draft status. I want to thank everyone for their help in getting the Nakamura stable article all set up. JRHorse (talk) 15:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I failed to mention, I also renamed the old Nakamura stable article and created a disambiguation between the two. JRHorse (talk) 15:48, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flag on Ōnosato Daiki

Did you guys see the flag on the Ōnosato Daiki article? Someone flagged it for non-english citations. JRHorse (talk) 00:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the edit summary of a similar edit that editor made I think they did so because they expect the citations to include an English translation of their titles via the "trans-title" parameter. However, the wording at Help:Citation_Style_1#Titles_and_chapters suggests to me that doing so is optional. I also do not think Template:Not English is meant to be used for that in the first place. So if no one wants to add translations, I see no problem in just removing the template from the page. Xfansd (talk) 01:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'd be willing to address the concerns as best I can unless there's consensus otherwise? Also will ping @ArguaBILL @OtharLuin @Pawnkingthree. JRHorse (talk) 13:45, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I usually try to add an English translation of the title of the reference, but I agree with Xfansd that I don't think it's mandatory. That header suggests the article could be put up for AfD in two weeks if it's not addressed? Never heard of that, and I don't see how it could be a valid reason for deletion. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This is the best course of action and the template addition seems very abusive to me - OtharLuin (talk) 16:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry do you refer to removing the template, or adding the translations? JRHorse (talk) 18:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No no removing the template. - OtharLuin (talk) 19:59, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think this is a consensus so will remove the template. JRHorse (talk) 23:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sumo + Sushi

Recently, I was lucky enough to go see Sumo + Sushi, an event hosted by Konishiki that tours around the U.S., introducing Sumo to American audiences. The event featured several retired wrestlers, including Takagenji. I found one writeup on it here. While I don't think the event merits its own article--at least not currently--it should probably be added to Konishiki's article in the Life after Sumo section. Lkb335 (talk) 13:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Sumo + Sushi to Konishiki's bio would be great yeah :) - OtharLuin (talk) 15:42, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ōnokatsu Kazuhiro

I feel it would be beneficial for someone to start working on drafting an article for Ōnokatsu ahead of the release of the Aki banzuke since he is for sure going to be promoted to the top division. ArguaBILL (talk) 07:43, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @OtharLuin. JRHorse (talk) 14:29, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shirokuma disambiguator

We should campaign for a Shirokuma disambiguation page to be created; currently Shirokuma is a redirect to the kakigōri article, and not even the part of the article specifically about the variation called "shirokuma". ArguaBILL (talk) 18:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikibreak

I've told @OtharLuin but just a heads up here, I'll be on wikibreak for about a month after today and will be unable to contribute during that time, including during and after the current tournament. Thanks! JRHorse (talk) 20:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aichi International Arena

Wanted to let folks know here (including @OtharLuin) that I've created a new article on the Aichi International Arena, where Nagoya grand sumo moves to in 2025, in case you want to help adding anything sumo-related. Thanks, JRHorse (talk) 18:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Terunofuji Intai

@OtharLuin @ArguaBILL and others… I am unable to edit articles until later, but just a heads up that I’m hearing rumblings about Terunofuji retiring. Not sure when exactly the news will become official. JRHorse (talk) 14:25, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

From what I see circulating, there are already solid sources reporting his retirement... For me it's an official announcement, the sport's only yokozuna has just retired... Having said that, I'm not in a position to go to newspaper sites to add sources either, I'll do it later this evening (UTC+1) - OtharLuin (talk) 14:31, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I’ll see what else comes up in the late hours (-5) on my end. JRHorse (talk) 14:41, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited his career record table, as I'm one to do. ArguaBILL (talk) 15:04, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I assume there will be an official announcement form the JSA before long. So far all I'm seeing are reports quoting JSA sources. I'm sure it will happen but it's not 100% yet. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kitanowaka is kyujo with a broken ankle

@OtharLuin @JRHorse and others... Kitanowaka fractured his right ankle and was pulled out of the arena in a wheelchair after losing to Takafuji https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202501190001395.html ArguaBILL (talk) 21:13, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Meant to touch base here, info updated, thanks JRHorse (talk) 02:39, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Makuuchi and jūryō template proposal

With the discussions and points brought up in Template talk:Active makuuchi rikishi and related edit summaries, I'd like to propose that the tournament month of the banzuke be added to the heading of both Template:Active makuuchi rikishi and to Template:Active jūryō rikishi. For example, "Active makuuchi rikishi - January 2025 banzuke" or something to that effect, which would then be updated on each subsequent release. This would align more closely with the Japanese templates (ie. ja:Template:大相撲関取) and avoid any confusion (i.e. with the recent yokozuna promotion). JRHorse (talk) 17:07, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add something like this to them. ArguaBILL (talk) 13:01, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List of sumo stables rework

I've recently been working on the list of sumo stables article in my sandbox. So far, I've tried to improve the visual presentation, I have added information on the elders associated with each stable, I have skimmed all the lists of notable wrestlers (drawing inspiration from the Japanese article, I have limited those lists to the highest ranked wrestlers produced by each stable, which greatly reduced the number of interlanguage links), I have removed the notes/remarks as they took up a lot of space for something that should be mentioned in the prose of their respective article, and reduced the list of name changes and included it directly as a column in the table.

I'm looking for feedback and possible improvements. MordecaiXLII (talk) 18:11, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That looks very impressive at first glance. Only suggestion right now is maybe in the column of highest-ranked wrestlers to put "best rank" instead of just "rank." JRHorse (talk) 01:01, 5 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me! Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:46, 5 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like real progress to me. Two things though, the best ranks shouldn't have the rank number applied to them, the press conventions only talk about rank and not its hierarchy within it. Also, there's a lot of confusion between the different incarnations of the stables, and the principle used for the articles should be respected. I'm thinking in particular of Yoshibayama, who has nothing to do with the version of Takashima stable that was later known as (current) Oshima stable. - OtharLuin (talk) 18:04, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hiatus

@ArguaBILL @OtharLuin @Pawnkingthree et. al., just wanted to give you a heads up that I will be on hiatus again from the wiki, starting after 28 February and lasting about one month. Will not be able to make any edits during this time, including during and after the March basho. March basho rankings release Tuesday morning in Japan (Monday is a national holiday) so I should be able to help on that end when it comes out. Thanks, JRHorse (talk) 13:42, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just came back briefly today to add some items in 2025 in sumo regarding Hoshoryu's withdrawal and Kusano's juryo victory. Won't be back again until the following weekend, so I won't be around for the conclusion of this tournament and anything else that happens in the days that follow. Thanks, JRHorse (talk) 15:42, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kimarite frequency

I saw a request on the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sumo page for help expanding the Kimarite article with information on frequency. I've worked on this for a few weeks and just published it, see here - let me know if you have any feedback! I developed a script that automates the creation of this table (including kimarite-specific references) so I can iterate on this quickly if needed. I am planning on using this script to refresh the table after every basho. I'm happy to share the source code with anyone, it's currently in a private github repo. NicheSports (talk) 04:57, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, while I appreciate your intentions and efforts, I am not sure if listing each and every kimarite and frequency is necessary, especially because one of Wikipedia's policies is that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate list of information - one could go to a website like sumogames, as your chart references, and search for the information there. I think some people who look at the chart will think to themselves "what is Nimaigeri (or insert technique here)" before scrolling back up to search for what that is. There's also no guarantee that the chart will always be current, as we can't say who will be around down the line to update it. JRHorse (talk) 12:36, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What do you suggest? The Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sumo page requested expanding the Kimarite article with "details on frequency, which rikishi use them, difficulty etc." I added information on frequency and rikishi but left out difficulty as I couldn't find any RS on the latter point. The article is already a list of all kimarite. Why would we provide this information for some kimarite and not others? As for maintainability, I agree this is a challenge. To mitigate, I have automated 95% of the process and am working to automate to 100%, other than just pasting in the table. I can open source this so others can update. One potential solution to the maintainability concern is to remove the "most recent basho/rikishi" columns, retain the basic bout statistics, and then update once per calendar year. But please let me know what you suggest. NicheSports (talk) 23:46, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If anything maybe the top ten or twenty might suffice, but otherwise my opinion is largely unchanged... I am open to debate though, and would like to see what the thoughts are of some other folks in the group. Pinging for discussion: @ArguaBILL @Pawnkingthree @OtharLuin @Tigerboy1966 - JRHorse (talk) 11:59, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the ping. I'm not a fan of a table listing the frequency of every kimarite - I think it's an overkill of stats, because so many of them are barely ever seen. Rather than a table, I would prefer some prose just concentrating on the most popular kimarite - we could certainly mention the frequency of yori-kiri, oshi-dashi, tsuki/otoshi etc. I think it could be useful to show that the vast majority of professional bouts are decided by only a handful of techniques. Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:56, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like people don't like the table so I will pull it. I will leave it to others to specify frequency information for the most frequent kimarite. I'd suggest updating the WP:WikiProject_Sumo page to remove or clarify the item referencing adding information to the Kimarite page with "details on frequency, which rikishi use them, difficulty etc." as that was what led me down this path NicheSports (talk) 19:31, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]