User talk:Nickgray

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One thing I just noticed, if anyone wants to help me undertake a MASSIVE project -- corporate Infoboxes for major tech companies have zero standardization. Looking at Google, Akamai, Apple, Cloudflare, etc. Some list co-founders, investors, products, technologies, stock prices, revenue, etc. IMHO this would benefit from standardization.

There you go, per request. See also the older versions (look in the history) of Lilting Banshees for potential material, which is a redirect page. If your article is accepted it will replace that page. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:31, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi Nickgray! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Can I add a Twitter link if the subject posts there often, and doesn't have a home page?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:04, 31 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi Nickgray! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, How to find old versions of articles, before deletion?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:02, 25 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi Nickgray! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, What to do with a rude comment on a Talk page?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:02, 21 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Given this post: [1], I'm wondering if you have a WP:COI in re: Cloudflare. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

K.e.coffman Nope, no COI, but good question considering my very pro-Cloudflare stance! To be clear on no COI: I don’t work there, have never applied to work there, never plan to work there, have never been paid by the company, am not Facebook friends with anyone who works at the company (to my knowledge), never made a VC or angel investment, etc. My editing interest is around improving the article: I’m honestly shocked how much negativity their Wikipedia page is focused on, as compared to the bulk of the company and the tech improvements they’re making to the internet and helping Wikipedia and Wikipedia. Any suggestions are appreciated to more accurately reflect a cool company with thousands of employees. Adding their product info seems to be the best route to add non-scandal stuff to beef out the article.

Similarly interesting to me, I’ve noticed that public SaaS company websites have almost zero standardization regarding which headers are displayed and included — as you noticed, Fastly had Acquisitions, as does Akamai, and some others. It would be an interesting standardization project, as I learn more about Wikipedia, if you’re ever interested to collaborate, to propose some sort of header schema for American public software companies. Any interest, or suggestions how I would further that idea? Nickgray (talk) 01:20, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Please don't add unsourced information as Wikipedia cannot host original research. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:27, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the clarification, Justin (koavf). I've found the source easily online so I'll go back and revert your edits, then add sources. Nickgray (talk) 10:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Nickgray, Thank you Nick. Take a look at this method to save you a little typing for references that you repeat. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:11, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi Nickgray! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, How to capitalize my username?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:01, 29 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robert McClenon was:

Thank you for your submission, but the subject of this article already exists in Wikipedia. You can find it and improve it at The Lilting Banshees instead.

 The comment the reviewer left was:

Two copies of this page have been created, in draft space and in article space. It is not necessary to create two copies of the same page, and it annoys the reviewers. This is sometimes done in order to bypass Articles for Creation review. However, if a submitter is ready to have the article in article space, it can be moved into article space, rather than creating a copy. It is common for a page that has been duplicated in draft space and in article space to be nominated for deletion or proposed for deletion. If the article is kept, this draft should be redirected to the article. If the article is deleted, this draft may be kept for future improvement.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:The Lilting Banshees and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:The Lilting Banshees, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Robert McClenon (talk) 15:28, 10 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Nickgray! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Robert McClenon (talk) 15:28, 10 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi Nickgray! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Creating a new article: Should I do it on my Sandbox, or in a Draft space?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:02, 26 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

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	The Editor's Barnstar
	For consistent updates on the page "Cloudflare" while working under a semi-hostile environment. Andrew nyrtalkcontribs 21:47, 22 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

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Hello, Nickgray - I saw your edits on the Cloudflare page, and was wondering if you would be willing to review the RfC discussion I began on the Talk page in December? I have reached consensus for a review and some condensing with a handful of editors, but none of my requests or proposals have been reviewed, discussed, or resolved.

(I note this everywhere, so I will note my COI here as well - I am an employee of Cloudflare, editing the page is not among my primary duties, and I am obviously not editing the page directly, or trying to push any promotional content). Thank you! Ryanknight24 (talk) 18:52, 21 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

I will take a look when I have some time. The last I saw, there was consensus to condense but no clear path forward. It was a bit confusing for me to make heads or tails of it. Nickgray (talk) 19:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

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Hi Nick, hope all's well. First, just want to say up top that I respect and appreciate the work you do to help document cultural institutions and their donors/leaders. This is an important project and I admire the amount of effort that has to have gone in to gather all that data. As someone who pays probably too much attention to the American art world, such as it is, I was happy to find a place that centralized all the information you've gathered.

When it comes to using your project as a citation on Wikipedia though, we run into a few issues. Citing yourself on Wikipedia is allowed, per WP:SELFCITE, but it must be done within a certain set of parameters and adhere to other guidelines. Most importantly, PatronView is a self-published project without independent editors and editorial controls other than yourself. That is not in any way meant as a negative or meant to imply that your work is not accurate or useful. But strictly speaking it exactly fits the definition of a self-published source. Reading the guidelines on that page, your use of self-published material seems to clearly fall under the third example of unacceptable usage: "Third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer." It's not appropriate to use a self-published source for information about another living person who did not author that source.

Again, I want to stress that none of this is an attack on your work at PatronView or your edits on Wikipedia; I genuinely appreciate both. But citing your own self-published material for information about a person other than yourself is generally not acceptable.

Happy to dive more into this, I realize there's a lot of nuance to these issues and situations. 19h00s (talk) 14:13, 9 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

oh my gosh, THANK YOU so much for the kind note and suggestions ~~ I feel seen. should I generally stop editing the posts and adding links to PatronView, or maybe continue but ONLY link to the IRS 990 forms and the official museum websites?

the issue(s) I've found is that the official museum websites often lapse, and linking to the the IRS 990 forms are... less than ideal (although now that I think about it, perhaps perfectly acceptable - I just have to find a reliable source for them that is a perma-link).

would it be appropriate to make citations to my PatronView project as proof of existing claims on Wikipedia pages, but disclose a COI in my edit comment? would that be an acceptable way to continue doing it myself? Nickgray (talk) 15:21, 9 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

whoops tagging @19h00s as I neglected to in my reply Nickgray (talk) 15:22, 9 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

Happy to help! I didn't want you to get too far in adding citations to a bunch of different artist bios just to see them reverted.

I think the 990 form route is probably the right approach - this kind of information definitely belongs in these articles, it was just the source that was the issue. Ideally we would be pointing to actual coverage of an individual's role on a board or in an organization or their status as a major donor, like a news article that mentions it or a biography that describes the individual's role. But barring finding a source like that, which often either doesn't exist or is hard to find, a 990 form is the second-best (As you note, museum websites themselves are often out of date). In terms of a permalink, ProPublica's nonprofit explorer is what I see editors use most often, as they host 990 forms theoretically in perpetuity.

On the alternate approach, continuing to use PatronView and disclosing a sort of COI, I think you would run up against one of the guidelines in WP:SELFCITE. Repeatedly citing your own material without pointing to other sources will be interpreted by many editors as a form of ref-spamming, or citing your own website en masse in order to raise your search ranking or other web traffic metric. I want to re-emphasize that I do not think that's what you were doing here. But other editors, especially those without experience in editing arts-related articles, would probably not be as generous in their interpretation of those kinds of citations. Even if you're just using the citation to confirm information already contained in an article, the multiple usages of your own self-published site across several articles would definitely raise some red flags for others.

Let me know if I can answer anything else! 19h00s (talk) 16:19, 9 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

@19h00s OK this is really helpful! I think what I will do for now is pause my citations for a while and think of a better way to cite and fact check board service. That includes looking at ProPublica's permalinks, or a better 990 solution.

Thanks for talking it through with me. This seems like one of those "easy" computer problems that just annoys me - we can actually verify Board service inside the IRS 990 data files, and yet sooo many pages on Wikipedia either (1) do not link to accurate citations, or more commonly (2) display outdated information when that person no longer serves on the board.

None of this is meant as a defense of my actions that contradict WP:SELFCITE, tho! I'll keep that in mind going forward and make sure to also add third-party and fully independent sources whenever possible, like this one at the Met Museum announcing three new trustees in 2021. Thank you again for the thoughtful and kind pushback on my edits.

p.s. if you have any suggestions for my PatronView project, I'm all ears! It is mainly meant as a resource to non-profit teams to see who is donating where to support arts orgs, so not a lot (or much of any, really) focus on the artists themselves. Nickgray (talk) 16:38, 9 August 2026 (UTC)Reply