Wikipedia will turn 20 in just 4 months! How should we celebrate? Goose(Talk!) 01:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
Last night the developers of the Wikimedia Foundation notified Russian Wikinews about the complete shutdown of news feeds. As you understand, a news agency cannot exist without a news feed because that is the only way to read them. Thus Russian Wikinews actually died. The problem has not been resolved yet. It's been almost a day. See news: n:ru:Фонд Викимедиа сломал Русские Викиновости and ticket phab:T262391. --sasha (krassotkin) 21:23, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
If the Russian Wikinews is a viable project, then I am all in favor of the WMF doing everything practical to keep it afloat. I don't know. English Wikinews, on the other hand, has published five mediocre articles in September. The most recent has a headline reading "Three children seriously injured as bus hits bridge in Winchester, England", and that was eight days ago. Very sorry for those kids and I hope they fully recover, but English Wikinews is a failed project with no credibility as a news site and negligible readership. Shutting it down would be a kindness to all concerned. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:38, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo
I would like to ask you how to delete this article, because I made the mistake in name of person or how can I edit it from Alexander Rozhko to Aleksander Rozhko?
{{db-g7}}
Hey Jimbo,
Ever since starting Wikipedia I've always wanted something to have your name on it forever, and I thought: Why don't I just make a auto-graph book on my user-page? It would do me a great honor for your name to be on it (and your talk page editors if they want) so I can always remember the great part of the community. Thanks, Go-Tsumaroki 17:25, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
What do you think of the argument being made here that "According to Legal status of same-sex marriage, same-sex marriage is recognized in only 28 countries. [...] What one country sees as bigotry another country sees as accepted practice. We are a global English encyclopedia and as such should reflect users not confined to countries with non accepted viewpoints. It would actually be propaganda, advocacy, or recruitment for us.... an encyclopedia which is worldwide (WP:WORLDVIEW) to have info-boxes promoting same-sex marriage while deleting info-boxes that oppose it."
Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.5% of all FPs 03:23, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, they're not a good look for us, they make our editors look like school kids with stickers on their rucksacks. A few of them stating languages spoken or nationality is OK, but it's the ones with dozens of "This editor likes Cheese", "thinks the truth is out there" etc which I find irritating.† Encyclopædius 12:25, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Apparently this film featuring African American actors and musical stars isn't notable. FloridaArmy (talk) 01:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
The same editor prodded these entries today:
There is only one indication of notability: coverage in reliable independent sources when its convenient.
For starters, most -- as in, over fifty percent -- of our six million articles do not meet the WP:GNG nor can me made to. If you want to put together a project to get rid of those 4 million articles, let me know. (But I will oppose you, since almost all of these articles are fine.) Til then, picking on a tiny subset of these articles that share a particular characteristic isn't really called for/
And then, there are always some articles that do have coverage in reliable independent sources that do get deleted or have to fight for their lives. A lot of times this is fine, those articles suck (after all, I could write an article about last night's Mets game and meet the GNG), but sometimes they're just about unpopular subjects.
And I mean... we have articles on basically every film, as a matter of fact we have hundreds and hundreds of articles on films that nobody even bothered to save a single copy and sometimes we don't even know what the plot was (in Category:Lost films; we also have Category:Unfinished films ("films that never completed principal photography") and a couple similar categories (Category:Cancelled films).)
So them, why would we not have room for That Man of Mine but we do have room for film articles like Terry Gilliam's unrealized projects. "Gilliam’s next film project was going to be Theseus and the Minotaur, based on Greek mythology. The film was shelved when Gilliam chose to make Time Bandits (1981) instead. Gilliam turned down the offer to direct Enemy Mine (1985). Gilliam also turned down the offer to direct Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988). According to Gilliam, "I passed on that one, but that didn’t matter because it was just at a stage when it was still just the book and I didn’t want to get into animation. I just read the book and said, 'This is too much work.' Pure laziness on my part".
Well pip-pip. See, it's not that Wikipedia editors and mods are racist -- not exactly. It's not that simple. It's just that they are so white that they know who the Knights Who Go Ni are. So of course they're going to assume that everyone else also wants to come here and read Terry Gilliam rambling on about things he thought about doing but then said nah. Conversely, these people don't know anything about what dances were developed at the Harlem Opera House or care. They're not against the Harlem Opera House. They just don't know what it is, is all. They're not interested, and they kinda-sorta can't really envision that anyone really could be unless they're virtue signalling or something. So then naturally the GNG turns into Tablets Of Stone in these instances.
Imagine that.
So anyway, it's not really racism so much as just bourgeois snobbery. You don't see it just here; it's all about the Wikipedia. You have to remember that the bulk of the editors and mods here -- that is, the power structure, since all human groups have power structures -- is dominated by American, white, middle class, college educated rahs in mid-market sports jackets. It's not the skin color that matters. It's the whole package. You can't tell the bourgeoisie that they are trapped in mirror cube of bourgeois values, for the same reason you can't tell a fish that it's wet. It won't understand. It can't. It doesn't know what "dry" is.
So don't argue to the fish, argue to the audience. Bring the question to larger audiences, as you have done here. Get people to read read Wikipedia:One hundred words or Wikipedia:The one question or the Wikipedian's Meditation or so forth. The WP:GNG is good reading too. It's all useful. None of it is scripture. And Godspeed. Herostratus (talk) 23:10, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo I have been a regular user of Wikipedia over the years but was very perturbed to read that a fringe doctor by the name of Malcolm Kendrick has had his entry removed. He has unconventional views on statins and this appears to have been sufficient for him to become an unperson. I don't happen to agree with him but in my view it reflects very badly on Wikipedia that the editorial structure allows him to be "cancelled". Clearly Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin's crimes were not sufficient for them to be disappeared from Wikipedia, but Dr Kendrick's opinions were. Science proceeds by claim and counter-claim, by debate and falsification. If editors find Dr Kendrick's views unscientific they can say so and provide links and references demonstrating that he is wrong. But to eliminate him altogether is deeply sinister. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:E383:7401:FC15:7272:ABE1:71B3 (talk) 18:39, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy, I hope the plague is staying clear of you and yours.
I'm starting to get questions offline about Wikidata and the possible WP:BLP impact of the data we store there. It seems to be the wild west right now. As I understand it, the intent of WP:BLP is that its foundational principles are mandatory across all projects. Is that correct? I ask because, e.g. Q93579649 links to Bill Gates, so data mining for Bill Gates in Wikidata introduces exactly the kind of asymmetric link we avoid - the mention of Gates-related conspiracist bullshit by Plandemic is significant to Plandemic, but not to Bill Gates. Right now there doesn't seem to be any bar to addition of living people to Wikidata items I am sure you have given this some thought in the past, what's your view please? Guy (help! - typo?) 16:11, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
Jimmy, does WMF and/or involved editors have any liability exposure for including material in a BLP that is cited to a news source the BLP has sued for defamation (and we unknowingly used related material cited to that news source), and the BLP ends up winning the defamation suit? Example: - material cited to Yahoo News about Carter Page. Atsme Talk 📧 12:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
We obviously can't suppress well-sourced coverage simply because a suit has been filed, since a) the mere existence of a suit has no bearing on the source's accuracy; b) these suits are largely unsuccessful; and c) frivolous defamation suits may even be used as a tool to manipulate and suppress unflattering realities. I'm more concerned that invoking litigation, as you've done above, has a chilling effect on our editors' appropriate coverage of topics. MastCell Talk 18:10, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Serious question: What are your thoughts on the Wikimedia Foundation's plans to rename themselves to something that includes "Wikipedia"? Goose(Talk!) 00:48, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Just a concern i wanted to share here since this page is watched by numerous editors. Many articles contain sources that are not available for verification because there is no link to access them. What about making the inclusion of (blue)links mandatory when a source is cited ? Stay safe everybody.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 20:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
This situation is very much worse now that almost all university research libraries have closed to the public due to the pandemic. Obscure offline sources have become orders of magnitude more difficult to verify. 2601:647:5E00:C5A0:78A7:1605:3AA4:164F (talk) 05:27, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi, Jimbo. Can you correct the months in the Tamil version please?--89.80.238.24 (talk) 16:11, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, I was thinking of making a wikipedia club at my high school where me and other aspiring wikipedians collaborate and help each other out. Would you allow me to make the club and do you have any suggestions? Best regards, Dan the Animator 22:52, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
"Everyone has to learn in a specific way."
"specific way"
"If you learn too much, they aren’t happy."
"learn too much"
Good 2020 pick choice for the "top spot". In addition, and you may have this in mind already, but if not, please consider awarding one or two 2020 honorable mentions to the Wikimedian of the Year list. The opportunity to fill that slot every year seems like a valuable way to honor additional deserving individuals. For instance, and this may be the way to go, may I call your attention to the Covid-19 project work of Moxy and Another Believer. Yet whomever you pick, please choose one of two a year and not leave such an important slot empty. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:45, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
It is known that WMF has large stockpiles of cash. Despite this, extremely aggressive donation messages are pushed out by the WMF that often cause confusion regarding Wikipedia's financial situation. Every year, around the donation season, rumours spread that Wikipedia is financially troubled and may shut down soon. WMF does nothing to correct, and perhaps even encourages these rumours through it's aggressive and, in my opinion, unethical donation drive strategies. Recently, a email sent out by WMF had the subject line "we've had enough". Many other WMF emails have similar quasi-threating tone too. Seriously? Don't you think this is going a bit too far? Is Wikipedia really that troubled that it needs to resort to these tactics? I was going to post it at Wikipedia:Village pump/WMF, but I wanted to know your views on this issue, so I'm posting here. Regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 16:59, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
hi! I invented a new type of article, and a new type of navbox, to help with documenting contemporary history. open to any feedback. thanks!
here they are:
--Sm8900 (talk) 14:24, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia is supposed to be (and usually is) a welcoming place, a broad church. Is it actually OK to carve out an exception for racists? In the current political climate there is a widespread misconception that because most racists are right-wing, so suppression of racism is anti-right (or pro-left) bias. What's your view on this, as we find ourselves right now? Guy (help! - typo?) 11:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
"anti-semitic cartoon"
This is sad. Bob K31416 (talk) 03:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm all for banning nazis, but focusing on the contributors instead of the content is likely to cause people to lie about whether they are nazis while they try to edit in as much of their POV as they can. We need a review system to address all the different kinds of bias. We can train new statistical models to locate diffs which may introduce such bias (call them "OBES"), and use systems like DoubleCheck to review them the same way we review vandalism. 107.77.165.47 (talk) 21:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
I suggest reading the policy WP:NPA, not just the title but the whole page. I think it's well written and has worthwhile advice. Bob K31416 (talk) 22:41, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
I have significant concerns about this "No Nazis" essay, most importantly who is going to be the arbiter of who is racist. If someone puts a swastika on their userpage, they should of course be banned immediately, but I suspect this essay will be applied more often to editors accused of bias, and then you really have to be careful. Wikipedia's five pillars and its conduct and content policies can already be applied to racists, but they are more in line with the Wikipedia spirit of having a minimal number of principles and guidelines. To me, this "No Nazis" essays reads too much like a manifesto and it could lead to some kind of reverse racism or some kind of reverse inquisition. I don't like the idea of collaborating with racist editors either, but with an anonymous online project you have to be more practical and less idealistic than you would with a real-world company. Efcharisto (talk) 19:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
"it can become like a witch-hunt"
tossed about so casually in 2020
"overt and conscious racism"
"viscerally or irredeemably racist in essence"
"User:Bus stop's edits and rhetorical behavior in that particular conversation formed a pattern of overt racism"
unsupported
"all our societies"
"shot through with flaws"
"not really diverting attention from racist behavior"
"racist behavior"
Like to think of yourself as liberal? Don’t congratulate yourself too quickly – your attitude might actually be hampering Muslims.
"America ... a basically racist nation"
"I am suspicious of people who claim they are not racist. I suspect they don't understand how deepseated racism can be."
"suspicious"
"Note that the only way Black lives will really matter is through identity politics."
"identity politics"
"Yet this advisory body of well-meaning people is plagued by polarizing disagreements about the nature of anti-racism that undermine its ability to effect change."
We're here to build a credible unbiased encyclopedia according to the policies and guidelines, not to hunt Nazis, racists, etc. If an editor is to be blocked, it's because the editor is impeding the project. If an editor is a Nazi and makes useful contributions, that's a good thing. But if he harms the encyclopedia with disruption and edits contrary to policy, then block him. I can't imagine a banner on a Wikipedia user's page that says, "This user has been indefinitely blocked for being a Nazi." Bob K31416 (talk) 17:16, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
"most Americans since the Civil Rights movement don't see color anymore"
"a section of the community won't stand for bigotry"
"a section"
"won't stand for bigotry"
If an editor is a Nazi and makes useful contributions, that's a good thing
Is this a useful discussion? Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
I would say that the most appropriate response to Nazis was written by the Dead Kennedys with their song Nazi Punks F Off, which was an expression of the Punk music scene as they learned that letting even one nazi in the door was one too many. https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/l-punks-80s-90s-kept-neo-nazis-scene/ 2601:2C0:C300:B7:46B:2511:8AAE:C97B (talk) 03:50, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Re a blocking case discussed in several places here, in 2016 an editor Zaostao was blocked indefinitely after their user page was brought to the attention of ANI by Mathmensch. From beginning to block took 4 hours without Zaostao's input. [7] [8] Two years later in 2018, Mathmensch was blocked indefinitely. [9] [10] Bob K31416 (talk) 13:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Excuse me if I intrude on this absurd and Orwellian discussion of bias and bigotry on Wikipedia initiated by a highly partisan editor who insists racism is a phenomenon of the right, while fellow Wikipedians puff their chests at helping to root out the Nazis (National Socialists). Meanwhile our coverage omits most African American politicians, many of their films, has glaringly distorted coverage of Catholic Conquistador history, and won't bear to include subjects like the leader of New Zealand militias that helped wipe out Maori protestors. I dare not mention that some of the commentors in this very discussion have threatened me with Wikiextermination if I ever again point out examples of Wikidiscrimination. In the meantime, here's a tiny sampling of the subjects omitted from Wikipedia:
FloridaArmy (talk) 17:44, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
"phenomenon of the right"
"most racists are right-wing"
casual racism and racial bias is found everywhere, but in the West overt racism, of the "go back where you came from" variety is a phenomenon of the right
"It's also noticeable that efforts to combat institutional racism mainly come from progressives."
"institutional racism"
for Wikipedia's entire existence, there has been an unwritten rule that bigotry, racism, nazism—were not tolerated
unnecessary
objection to the essay is solely based on the Left's misuse of language
playing a linguistic version of sleight of hand
is part and parcel of who we are
intolerance of Nazism or racism is an integral aspect of Wikipedia
I think FloridaArmy is impressive. I had the good fortune to do extensive work on one of FA's articles and it was one of the best experiences I had on Wikipedia. Bob K31416 (talk) 02:46, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Jimbo, do you have an opinion on the anchor theory referenced above? Is owning the libs ever the be-all, end-all? 107.242.121.54 (talk) 06:23, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi, Mr Wales.
Just read your interview in this fascinating Esquire piece, What We Know And Can Agree On: Wikipedia At 20, and have a few questions for you.
You compare yourself to the Queen: "No real power, but the right to be consulted, the right to encourage, and the right to warn". Of course, Her Majesty does in fact hold considerable power - for example, she can start wars and gets first dibs on any beached whales - only she doesn't usually wield it. I understand that you used to make use of your omnipotence, but these days tend to hold back. Approaching two decades on the throne, what do you consider Wikipedia's greatest failing(s), and given Wikipedia's prominent role in the knowledge ecosystem, why do feel you are unable to flex your constitutional rights to remedy it/them?
You say: "In 500 years, Wikipedia will be remembered and (if we do our job well in setting things up with a long-term perspective for safety) still be informing the public". What exactly do you mean by 'perspective for safety'? I hope you don't mean we can expect to see Wikipedia-brand computer chips controlling one's brain! What form do you envisage Wikipedia taking in the far flung future? Half a millennium is long way off, we may not even take a recognisably human form by then. Will there even be a need for an encyclopedia, much less volunteer editors, in a world of incorporeal light-beings and hyper-advanced artificial intelligence?
Finally, on a lighter note, I see someone already added your passion for food to your wiki-biography. What could we expect at a Jimmy dinner party, and what would you say is your speciality, your signature dish?
Sincerely, Dark Clouds of Joy (talk) 01:11, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Jimmy, we have WP:NPOL as a decent guide on notability of politicians, but it confers a definite incumbent advantage. It seems reasonable that unsuccessful past candidates be rolled up into an article about the race, but do you have a view on what we should do differently, if anything, in the next election cycle, about new major party candidates for statewide and national office? Do you think we should try to write less blow-by-blow commentary of elections, or have an article on each major party candidate but merge the losers afterwards, or something else? There's a definite tension here between neutrality (in the political sense) and well-supported consensus designed to stop the abuse of Wikipedia for electioneering purposes, and indeed the reverse: popular outrage over candidates who espouse QAnon, for example. I am genuinely torn on this and I'd like to know your view. Guy (help! - typo?) 20:03, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
WP:NPOL is merely a way to bypass WP:GNG, to me WP:GNG is a pretty good way to sort these out. One thing wiki-unique about candidates is that their wp:notability status often changes rapidly. One idea would be to simply recognize that a candidate that fails wp:GNG today and fails it again 3 weeks from now could very well meet GNG 3 weeks after that and so articles on current candidates should not be salted or prejudiced based based n previous deletions. North8000 (talk) 15:43, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
|answered=
|ans=
Please change {{User:Audacity/centijimbo|3840}} to {{User:Audacity/centijimbo|{{Wikipedia:Centijimbos/counter}}}} so editors won't have to update the count manually in both places. 83.9.213.61 (talk) 16:36, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
{{User:Audacity/centijimbo|3840}}
{{User:Audacity/centijimbo|{{Wikipedia:Centijimbos/counter}}}}
Is it true that Wikipedia will not publish the opinions of the British Prime Minister if the source is an interview with the Daily Mail?-- User:Mark F Anderton
The Daily Mail was deprecated in the 2017 RfC, and the decision was reaffirmed in the 2019 RfC. There is consensus that the Daily Mail (including its online version, MailOnline) is generally unreliable, and its use as a reference is generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist. As a result, the Daily Mail should not be used for determining notability, nor should it be used as a source in articles.
generally prohibited
reality has a well-known liberal bias
silly gibberish
Advice and Consent of the Senate
The metrification example linked above is timely. Until I saw it with my own eyes, I would never have believed that Johnson telling the Mail in 2019 that post-Brexit, people "should not be prosecuted" for trading in Imperial units, it being their "ancient right" apparently, was somehow irrelevant to Wikipedia. Johnson's choice to put views like this only in the Mail, is political. A deliberate tactic. Whether he means to do it or not, he said it, on the record, to millions of people. He may have even succeeded in his political aims at that time, "getting Brexit done", simply because one half of the electorate were aware these were his views, and the other half may never have even known they were his views, much less had an opportunity to debunk them at a later date when the likely post-Brexit legal framework was clearer. All because someone at Wikipedia decided to ban them as either possible fake news (laughable) or irrelevant (indefensible). The motive of such things is clearly political, even if the people doing it probably don't really understand how politics works. Faithfully documenting the Prime Minister's on the record views is an apolitical act. To not do so, is highly questionable. Wikipedia should probably be carving out a specific exemption out of any future press bans it chooses to implement, for the sole purpose of where it prevents the documenting of on the record views of major political figures. If not, can it credibly explain why it does not?-- User:Mark F Anderton
Johnson's choice to put views like this only in the Mail, is political. A deliberate tactic. Whether he means to do it or not, he said it, on the record, to millions of people.
deliberate tactic
Johnson will have likely mentioned it because he undoubtedly remembers the fuss that erupted when people were indeed arrested and taken to court for daring to trade in certain Imperial units after the EU had banned them. The great British pint having always been excepted of course, probably after another huge fuss. This will all be covered in some dusty book somewhere. I wouldn't worry about it, probably not important now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BDM189 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
@JzG: re: "RSP is not "unvetted", it's a collection of internal notes about past discussions of individual sources in relation to a foundational policy, WP:RS." Wikipedia:Reliable sources is not a "foundational policy", it is a content guideline. Compare and contrast with WP:Civility, which as a policy which is one of the "five pillars" is a "foundational policy". Yet in spite of that editors can shout F*CK without consequences, because, "not censored", while the guideline forces an editor to get a consensus before they can cite the Mail and allows anyone expressing views supporting the Mail to have their microphone cut off on this page. – wbm1058 (talk) 20:35, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
RSP is not "unvetted", it's a collection of internal notes about past discussions of individual sources in relation to a foundational policy, WP:RS.
anyone expressing views supporting the Mail
You editors who are all raging at the plight of the Daily Mail—do you guys ever ask the Mail to not publish fake news, or issue retractions if they accidentally do so, or at least silently take down things like the seven-year fib JW pointed out? Because that might be more effective than simply begging at Wikipedia for there to be no consequences, citation-wise. Or not, I guess. --‿Ꞅtruthious 𝔹andersnatch ͡ |℡| 17:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
@Jimbo Wales: I'm not sure you're aware of the extent to which "deprecation" at WP:RSPSOURCES has dramatically transformed the manner in which we're now handling major international newspapers. Just a few years ago, sourcing issues were discussed at WP:RSN effectively and on a case-by-case basis: for instance RT's reliability was repeatedly judged conditional on the article and topic in question 2013, 2014, 2014, 2015. Now, in the context of what some international observers describe as a "new Cold War" between the US, the UK and both China [21][22] and Russia [23], specific context no longer matters, and attribution has been replaced by exclusion: an extraordinary policy for a scholarly enterprise. Two official news sources of Russia, one of the world's three nuclear superpowers, are deprecated on the English-language Wikipedia [24][25], and a third contains a warning [26]. Official news sources for China, the world's most populous country and the second of the three nuclear superpowers, are now either deprecated [27] or contain a warning [28]. China's nationalistic and hawkish Global Times was recently deprecated [29] even though the main objection to it by editors was the political speech contained in its op-eds, which are carefully detailed in this excellent review [30] by Foreign Policy magazine. FP summarizes: Since 2009, there has also been an English edition that shares editorial content with the Chinese flagship. It has earned attention — and notoriety — in China and abroad for its hawkish editorials and has been labeled by Western observers as “China’s Fox News.” Whereas we might previously have urged attribution of views (always a positive when describing the political positions of state newspapers, world leaders, or intelligence agencies), now the official print and broadcast voices of strategic rivals of the Anglo-American orbit are being shut out altogether. This is a sharp departure from previous practice on this site, and from the idea that Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia.
Since 2009, there has also been an English edition that shares editorial content with the Chinese flagship. It has earned attention — and notoriety — in China and abroad for its hawkish editorials and has been labeled by Western observers as “China’s Fox News.”
It's worthwhile to note that it's easy to remedy this problem while keeping WP:RSPSOURCES, by including categories for international papers that have partial or full state control, or nationalistic editorial lines, and should therefore be used with attribution. Furthermore, editors should be encouraged to think in beyond the binary categories of 1 (reliable) or 4 (deprecated): it should come as no surprise that this is difficult for our species in the context of political conflict. -Darouet (talk) 21:49, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
have a lasting and detrimental impact
...on her desk sits an old yellow telephone, a government landline, the sort with no dial pad, the sort usually seen in the offices of senior Russian officials. It is her secure connection, she admits, directly to the Kremlin.
@Wbm1058, Darouet, and Atsme: The genius of Wikipedia is that they get to mark their own homework, up to and including reviewing internal decisions for the presence of bias. In their own words, "if the Daily Mail was going to sue Wikipedia, they would have done so long ago". in response to a fairly convincing internal complaint that printing "The Daily Mail has been noted for copyright violations" is a gross distortion of the facts, and a blatant misuse of sources. Nothing will be done, the complaint will be ignored, much like all previous complaints on that page. What more needs to be said? The potential for bias is clear and obvious. There is nothing Jimmy Wales or anyone else here can realistically say to deny it. I don't know why anyone who sees these things as clear and obvious breaches of basic ethics, even bother to engage in good faith. Do they like being made fools of?— Preceding unsigned comment added by ChinaDaniel (talk • contribs) 12:49, October 17, 2020 (UTC)
Many of the United States’s best-known newspapers cooperated with the CIA as a matter of policy. Arthur Hays Sulzberger, publisher of the New York Times, was a good friend of Allen Dulles and signed a secrecy agreement with the Agency, although he delegated liaison duties to subordinates so as to give himself plausible deniability. Under the terms of this arrangement, the Times provided at least ten CIA officers with cover as reporters or clerical staff in its foreign bureauss... Another eminent news executive on friendly terms with Dulless was William S. Paley of the Columbia Broadcasting System, whose news president, Sig Mickelson (later chief of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty), was in such constant telephone contact with CIA headquarters that, tired of leaving his offices to use a payphone, he installed a private line that bypassed the CBS switchboard... A third mechanism for disseminating CIA-approved stories was the syndicated news service, with the Agency using existing organizations such as Associated Press and United Press International for this purpose...
the haven of criminals
Hi, Jimbo,
There has been a couple of censorship assertions on Fox about Wikipedia's Hunter Biden bio being Hunter Biden "locked". What I think is more thought proviking is a short segment on a Fox interview, beginning at 39:05, with a reference to media now becoming something resembling Orwell's Outer Party. What do you think about that? Specifically in terms of Wikipedia content. Willingtohandlethelikelytruth (talk) 15:35, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Jimbo - Hunter Biden is clearly not written from a WP:NPOV. To summarize the situation with Hunter Biden at this point by saying "He and his father have been the subjects of debunked right-wing conspiracy theories pushed by Donald Trump and his allies concerning Biden business dealings and anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine." is just ludicrous. Tvaughan1 (talk) 06:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
On Thursday evening Kimberly Strassel, a Trump-booster for the Wall Street Journal opinion pages, published a column claiming that text messages from a business partner of Hunter Biden “raise questions” about Joe Biden’s involvement in a deal with a Chinese company. Hours later, the news side of the Wall Street Journal shot down some of those questions. [33]
In July 2020, more than 280 WSJ journalists and Dow Jones staff members wrote a letter to new publisher Almar Latour to criticize the opinion pages' "lack of fact-checking and transparency, and its apparent disregard for evidence," adding, "opinion articles often make assertions that are contradicted by WSJ reporting." The editorial board responded that its opinion pages “won’t wilt under cancel-culture pressure” and that the objective of the editorial content is to be independent of the Journal's news content and offer alternative views to "the uniform progressive views that dominate nearly all of today’s media." The board’s response did not address issues regarding fact-checking that had been raised in the letter.
the latest episode in a multiyear effort by Trump and his allies to use Hunter Biden’s foreign business dealings as a cudgel against his father's campaign
Trump referenced Bobulinski's news conference during the debate, in between lobbing false accusations that Joe Biden took money from various foreign countries
extensive public reporting
do not know what [I am] trying to say
Not so sure you have that right. From what I can tell you are suggesting I have had a stroke or some such nonsense and that is why no one can make sense of the rants you keep posting. Given that I am not a lone is having a hard time making sense of the points you are trying to make and I see everyone else just fine I am left to conclude you have it backwards my friend. Please work on that. Thanks! PackMecEng (talk) 19:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
"a complex etiology, possibly with involvement of multiple brain regions"
colourless green ideas sleep furiously
... and I don't think I have a "vegan agenda" since I've been known to put bacon on a veggie burger ...
Wikipedia has certainly acquired a bias on US political topics which has led to / is leading to Wikipedia having a reputation for such and being considered to be a poor source on such articles. A bunch of factors have led to this. A part of it is succumbing to simple "head count" in the various discussions, or failure of policies / guidelines to prevent that from happening. A few are historical weaknesses, for example, a definition of "reliable source" which does not mean actually reliable with respect to expertise and objectivity on the topic at hand. Also policies have become outdated in this arena and have not adapted to major media having transitioned from "reporting" to "advocacy" in this area, and not recognizing that the most common form of bias is what gets / does not get covered. North8000 (talk) 13:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
I don't want to focus too much on just this one incident, especially one where when I first mentioned it I immediately noted that I was not knowledgeable on it. In general, if something is factual, a hoax, mis-information, theory (supported or unsupported), an assertion, etc. there are ways to cover it as such. In this case, as was pointed out, it was covered in a place that I would not have thought to look and which didn't come up under a wiki-search. I haven't read the whole article which was pointed out, but as a sidebar, another common POV issue is to mis-label something as a "conspiracy theory". Most of the time when this label is used, there is little or no "conspiracy" allegation, it is more of a straightforward allegation (un-proven or proven) or set of such allegations with little or no allegation of there being a conspiracy. Wrong-doing or disdained behavior is common, having a conspiracy behind it is not. So seeing a "conspiracy" behind too many things is a common flaky behavior, and a common way to deprecate a whistler blower or accuser is to mislabel mere allegations of wrong-doing / disdained behavior as being allegations of a (straw man)conspiracy. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:39, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
Was Shokin soliciting and getting bribes from Burisma to not prosecute before Hunter Biden joined Burisma
Did eliminating Shokin after HB joined Burisma solve this problem for Burisma?
Were there any prosecutions of Burisma while HB was with them?
After HB left Burisma, did prosecutions start up again