Greetings! The discussion of issues with this template should be held at the main templates talk page here --> Template talk:Discrimination. Benjiboi 02:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Do you mean Template talk:Discrimination sidebar, since that is evidently supposed to be a copy of this (and so far has a lot more talk)? Zodon (talk) 09:26, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as anti-gay hate groups was added with this edit. I don't have a problem with the article being included in the template, but I have problems with not ascribing the list to the SPLC - see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Link dispute (another anti-gay hate group one) on Template:LGBT. In the absence of a compromise naming, it would seem that we need to default to the article's name. StAnselm (talk) 07:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
That is exactly the point. We only have one article on all of Wikipedia about anti-gay hate groups and that's the one. If we get a second article then a debate may be warranted as to which or how to link them, until then we only have the one article on this subject. Insomesia (talk) 20:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Speciesism is also a form of discrimination, but against other living beings. The human being consider itself superior to other species and so gets engaged on animal mass killing (livestock, vivisection, hunting etc.).
Can we add it to the template? Robfbms (talk) 00:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
- It certainly has more sensible place in a discussion of social justice than "pedophobia" (aka "justice against anti-child fascists") 59.167.111.154 (talk) 02:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Discrimination against red-haired people, albinos, and those who have a circadian rhythem sleep "disorder" called "Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome" or "Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder"; suffering the bias of being forced to live in a dominantly diurnal society, surrounded by people who say "you're wasting daylight", "you are sleeping in, obviously you are lazy", "you must have criminal intent to be out at night", "only serious crime happens at night, dont stab me", "you are wearing all black, which house are you robbing?"...etc. Being Left-handed, having exclusive same-gender attraction, nocturnal, and neoPagan I know the difference between non-issue, and "sky is falling" ego-projecting assholes. 71.119.48.19 (talk) 04:59, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The solutions section is clearly biased as it assumes a culturally heterogeneous environment, as in the United States, rather than a culturally homogenous environment, as in Japan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.174.58.196 (talk) 19:18, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Ethnopluralism is a solution in the sense that it suggests protecting the culture of each ethnic group, potentially reducing the perceived privilege of one group - from the article ... stress that each ethnic group and racial group should be considered equal on its own merit.Jonpatterns (talk) 09:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Below I have list the headings in the template, with a description of my understanding of what should be listed there-
Do people agree, or maybe you have a different interpretation? Jonpatterns (talk) 11:21, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
@Rainbowofpeace: Cronyism doesn't belong on the template unless "people I don't know personally" is some sort of identifiable, marginalized group that can be discriminated against, and "name and shame" isn't a form of discrimination at all. Murder music is something I'd at least consider including if it had its own article, but even the article on opposition to it is quite short; it does not seem to belong in a top-level template of this kind. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:36, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Roscelese and thanks for your prompt reply. Name and Shame I have no interest in being in the template. If you wish to remove it by all means do so. Cronyism (and its related cousin Nepotism) to me are about using personal relations even when someone more qualified comes along due to them being family or friends. If I were an employer at a law firm and stated I would rather hire my friend Michelle because that she was my friend rather than Rachael who had a law degree and had passed the bar that would be Cronyism. As for Murder Music it is clearly a form of discrimination. Its advocates harming people based on sexual orientation. May I say I was happy with your additions of Feminism as well as the Gender wage gap. Thank you!-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 01:26, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
See the discussion on this topic at the talk page of the alternate template, Template talk:Discrimination sidebar § Meat eating as discrimination. Biogeographist (talk) 15:45, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
See the discussion on this topic at the talk page of the alternate template, Template talk:Discrimination sidebar § Not all pages linked in this template have the template on the page. Biogeographist (talk) 15:08, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia:Template namespace, "Templates should be clearly documented as to their usage and scope." There is currently no basic purpose, usage or scope information in the documentation for {{Discrimination}}, though there is some in {{Discrimination sidebar}}. Wikipedia:Template documentation has some good tips. Normal Op (talk) 02:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
"Templates should be clearly documented as to their usage and scope."
Discrimination is not solely confined to those against humans but also includes those against non-humans. This has been well established in the literature, especially since the later half of the 20th century by scholars. An editor has removed with goodfaith entries that are non-human, such as Speciesism and other related ones, citing the lack of information on them in the main Discrimination article. That only warrants adding those info in the main article rather than removing the entries in the templates. Hence I'm reverting this edit. Thanks. Rasnaboy (talk) 09:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
"are intended to link articles to each other. That is, every article listed on a particular navigation template generally has the template placed on its page."
"All articles within a template relate to a single, coherent subject. The subject of the template should be mentioned in every article. The articles should refer to each other, to a reasonable extent."
"Disadvantages ... Inclusion of article links or subdivisions in a template may inadvertently push a point of view. ... be used to advertise obscure topics in prominent places ... The collection of articles in a sidebar template should be fairly tightly related."
Discrimination is used incoherently in general language - it is often used to refer to unjustified treatment based on a characteristic (perceived or real), which is a normative definition. Other times it is used to refer to treatment based on a characteristic (perceived or real) with no normative content, purely descriptive (consider that if you have qualifications for a job and deny the job to people without those qualifications, you are discriminating against them, but nobody would see that as wrong). One can define a certain type of discrimination normatively e.g define speciesism as wrong by definition, but then you have the problem that if the treatment based on species isn't wrong, it isn't speciesism (and thus by some philosophers, speciesism never occurs in the real world because it's not wrong to discriminate based on species). I will note that the page for speciesism uses a descriptive definition, not a normative one. The issue is that discrimination is a morally loaded word in real world useage - when animal rights activists argue speciesism is a form of discrimination, they are usually arguing it is unfair treatment, rather than making the utterly banal observation that it is treating something based on a (perceived or real) characteristic. So they are using normative definitions.
If the Navbox is referring to a normative definition of discrimination, then the Navbox should be junked entirely because this violates WP:NPOV. Since I assume the navbox is talking descriptively then it's fine to include speciesism there - some people see nothing wrong with it, go the page if you want to read about the debate. In my personal opinion the Navbox is utterly screwed because, logically, it should have all kinds of discrimination in it, as you can discriminate on any conceivable characteristic. Instead it seems to only talk about kinds of discrimination that are viewed as normatively wrong, yet it talks about them in a descriptive way (mostly). This has actually been mentioned on the talk page for Discrimination:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Discrimination#Scope So I think this is actually a broader issue with the Navbox myself.
So I guess I see nothing wrong with it being there if we're going to include any kind of discrimination in the descriptive sense. If we're only including normative definitions, then the entire Navbox should be removed since that violates WP:NPOV Sdio7 (talk) 23:19, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
If we're only including normative definitions, then the entire Navbox should be removed since that violates WP:NPOV
distinctions between human beings based on the groups, classes, or other categories to which they are perceived to belong
based on the groups, classes, or other categories to which they are perceived to belong
Most or all of the items in this navbox refer to somebody's norms, but that doesn't mean that Wikipedia endorses any of those norms
"Good navboxes generally follow most or all of these guidelines: 1. All articles within a template relate to a single, coherent subject. ... 2, 3, 4, 5 ... If the collection of articles does not meet these criteria, the articles are likely loosely related. A list, category, or neither, may accordingly be more appropriate."
Above I proposed that Speciesism belongs in the "Related topics" section of this template. Normal Op countered that it does not. More evidence would be helpful. To test how Speciesism compares to other items currently in "Related topics", I decided to look up "discrimination" plus unfairness OR unfair plus each item in the "Related topics" section in Google Scholar to report the hit counts here (the synonym unfairness OR unfair was added to try to reduce irrelevant meanings of "discrimination"). This is subject to all the usual caveats of Wikipedia:Search engine test § Interpreting results, but it may provide a basis for further discussion.
(Some details: I chose Google Scholar instead of Google to exclude the kind of fringe sources that a general Google search would include, and I changed "criminal news" to "crime news" since that was the much more widely used term in search results, and I didn't search for list topics since they were too general, and I put a question mark next to The talk (racism in the United States) since I couldn't think of a way to meaningfully search for that.)
Bias, Diversity (politics), and Prejudice, being very general words, all have six-figure hit counts. The topics with the lowest hit counts, under 100, are Second-generation gender bias, Net bias, Polyculturalism, Allophilia, Masculism, and Oikophobia dead last.
Speciesism, admittedly, does not fare well in this fight. You could say it leads the bottom third. As a thought experiment, if I were to weed the "Related topics" section based on these hit counts alone, I would eliminate everything below about 1,000 hits, which means that Speciesism would come this close to being included but, alas, would not make the cut. Biogeographist (talk) 22:41, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
This edit. Please provide RS that describe anticommunism specifically as a form of discrimination, rather than something else. For example, should we include here anti-fascism simply because fascists were "violently oppressed" during WW II? My very best wishes (talk) 14:22, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Anti-communism includes many well-known indidents of discrimination or outright persecution: various Red Scares including the Hollywood blacklist, McCarthyism, the activities of the House Un-American Activities Committee, and persecution of communists and other leftists during The Holocaust. This is true regardless of one's opinion of communism as an ideology. Anti-fascism is a false equivalence because even in WWII it was a reaction to the discriminatory ideology and policies of fascists themselves. Our article on discrimination states, Discrimination especially occurs when individuals or groups are unfairly treated in a way which is worse than [how] other people are treated, on the basis of their actual or perceived membership in certain groups or social categories (my bolding). It would be hard to argue that fascists in WWII were treated worse than they treated other people. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Discrimination especially occurs when individuals or groups are unfairly treated in a way which is worse than [how] other people are treated, on the basis of their actual or perceived membership in certain groups or social categories
@Doublah: Articles like Anti-Austrian sentiment have not been on the list for more than a year. I was the one to remove some of them, and I checked each and every one before removing it. I could not find serious instances of discrimination in any of them. Opposition to the politics of a government is something very different from discrimination. I think we should stick to real discrimination like racism, antisemitism, homophobia, religious persecution, and similar crimes. Rsk6400 (talk) 16:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Discrimination is the act of making unfair or prejudicial distinctions between people
|answered=
Kindly add Racialization as one of the Manifestations. 174.113.8.122 (talk) 14:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Dear Editors: I would like the editors to consider changing the word "manifestation" to "practice" in two tables on the Sexism page.
Change "Manifestations" to "Practices" in the top table: Part of a series on Discrimination.
Change "Manifestations" to "Practices" in the bottom table: Discrimination.
I think it would help improve clarity of complex concepts to the average reader.
I would also like the editors to consider changing the order of the list. Policies should immediately precede Practices. This would flow more logically into the next section, Countermeasures.
Thank you for your consideration. 2601:C2:1682:1B0:20A8:B6F1:6BB4:351B (talk) 23:45, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
{{Edit semi-protected}}
Add Discrimination against transgender men back as a subtype of Transphobia, along with Non-binary and Transmisogyny. It was already in the Template:Discrimination sidebar, why was it removed? Skemous (talk) 03:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
@Rsk6400: The current navbox lacks any links to 21st century technological/automation discrimination. My addition was reverted as we "shouldn't link to sections", but there is sufficient material for standalone topics in the near future. Proposed additions:
GobsPint (talk) 06:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)