{{editsemiprotected}} Propose adding a new list to the list of religions, to accomodate Quakerism, which is a Non-credal Christian religion (and listed as such on that page), that does not fall into the other categories listed. This would ideally follow the "Nontrinitarian" entry, but I leave it to the editor to decide what is appropriate.
{{editsemiprotected}}
So my proposal would be to add one line to the the existing template (after Nontrinitarian):
Nontrinitarian: Jehovah's Witness · Latter Day Saint · Unitarian · Christadelphian · Oneness Pentecostal · Iglesia ni Cristo Non-credal: Quakerism
Thus I am asking to please change
Nontrinitarian: Jehovah's Witness · Latter Day Saint · Unitarian · Christadelphian · Oneness Pentecostal · Iglesia ni Cristo
to
Thanks for considering this. Bill Jefferys (talk) 02:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I did not realize that I fell into the "Autoconfirmed" category. My edit has gone through to the template. "Nevermind!" Bill Jefferys (talk) 02:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Quakers have been influential far beyond their numbers. For 100 years (until the French and Indian war) they were the majority religion in Pennsylvania, founded by Quakers. The Pennsylvania Charter was influential in the writing of the United States Constitution (particularly as regards freedom of religion). Quakers were very important in the anti-slavery movement both in America and in England and its colonies, and were similarly important in the women's suffrage movement. They are the reason why you can "affirm" instead of swear when you are called as a witness in court. Their system of fixed prices (rather than bargaining) has been enormously influential in commerce...you don't bargain when you go to the store to buy a bottle of milk. Because of Quakers and other pacifist religious groups, conscientious objectors were recognized after the First World War and alternative ways for such persons to serve were devised that are still in the law (even though Selective Service is currently suspended). Just going by the numbers (which are several hundred thousand worldwide) you might call them small, but that number is comparable to some other groups on your list. So in my opinion, it is not reasonable to leave them out simply because of their size.
I take your point that perhaps most would think of them as Protestants, although Quakers themselves have always distinguished themselves from Protestants, insisting that they were neither Catholic nor Protestant. (Orthodox never came into it as there were no Orthodox in England when Quakerism developed). So, I suppose that one could put them there. But they belong somewhere. Bill Jefferys (talk) 13:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think that I have discovered (by looking at the history) the real problem here.
On March 30, 2009, a slew of revisions took place that changed a very simple "History and Denominations" part of the template, into a potentially explosive one, by splitting it into "History and Traditions" and "Denominations". Looking at things, and thinking about how Wikipedia is supposed to work, I think this was a huge mistake. This is because, as you point out, "Denominations" has the potential of collecting a huge number of entries. Your complaint was (after thought on your part) that Christadelphians and Quakers were "too small" to be listed. Maybe that's right under the current template, but maybe it's wrong. Where do you draw the line? At number of currently practicing adherants? At historical significance (after all, many of the historical examples in the template are long gone but important historically), or on some other grounds?
My opinion now, looking at the history, is that the "Denominations" section should be deleted in its entirety. It's too narrow. As you correctly point out, it is a magnet for every small sect that wants to be included.
Better to delete it, re-establish the "History and Denominations" section much as it was before March 30, perhaps (and I would urge this) add after "Unitarian" the section "Non-creedal" (which already has an article), and let those who wish to follow up on any of these categories click on it.
Of course, there have been some changes (though not too many) since "Secisek" made that marathon of changes on March 30. You have been following this, I have not. You would know better than I which of these subsequent edits should remain and which should not.
What do you think of this way of resolving the problem?
Thanks, Bill Bill Jefferys (talk) 00:14, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The history says that the splitting into "History and Traditions" and "Denominations" was not yours. It was made according to the history by "Secisek (talk | contribs) at 03:52, 30 March 2009". The previous revision, by the same editor, has no such split. Both of these revisions were by Secisek. Prior to that edit, there was no separate "Denominations" entry.
The problem I have, now that you have alerted me to it, that since there are thousands of Christian sects, there is no limit to the number of "denominations" that might be listed under this entry. How do you decide which to include and which to exclude? By influence in modern society? By influence in ancient society and on the development of the Church? By sheer numbers (but when? Today? 100 years ago? During the Great Awakening and Great Disappointment? You tell me!)
My preference would be to put just broad categories into this particular template, and to use the links in the template to allow people to find additional information.
I will look at your other template, but I don't think this solves the problem of how you decide, arbitrarily, to include or exclude particular denominations. Bill Jefferys (talk) 02:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If this is the reason for the list in this template, then it would seem to me that removing Christadelphians was a mistake, since it no longer agrees with the results of that discussion. Perhaps you should restore it. At the same time I can see that there is logic to your position as regards putting Quakers into this particular template. I would say that your argument that Quakers should be excluded because of their size is contradicted by the discussion you pointed to. But I won't pursue the point. Bill Jefferys (talk) 19:47, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As reference just above, to add a new Christianity article to this template-- it ought to be a top-importance Christianity article. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Core topics work group/Topic list for the list of Top-importance Christianity articles. As of 1 April 2009, there are just 80 articles on the list. If you would like to remove one or add one, start a discussion on that talk page first (the list is designed to be smaller than 100 articles). Carlaude:Talk 19:59, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I changed autocollapsed to autocollapse. This template was showing up as uncollased (open) in all placed it showed up! Please see Template:Navbox if you are unfamiliar. Nasa-verve (talk) 02:06, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've noticed that 6 months ago the issue about whether the "Denominations" section would explode into a huge list. One solution could be to use the terminology in the "major branches of Christianity file [1]. Would changing the template to say "Branches" or "Streams" or something like that be an improvement over "Denominations"? Fralupo (talk) 08:11, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
hi. i've had no success discussing in the islam section so maybe someone here could help me out
the "quranist" denomination is not mentioned on the main 'islam page. could someone make this edit for me please?
1st, its missing in the denominations article (here you could simply write quranists follow only the quran without hadith) 2nd, its missing in the purple 'islam topics' template box (here you could also add the Salafi denomination)
thanks for your time —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.139.26 (talk) 21:17, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Old Catholics are not Catholics they are a protestant denomination 188.123.237.30 (talk) 20:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Old Catholics are indeed a protestant denomination. The same goes for Independent Catholics. There has to be some sort of distinction between true Catholics, in union with the Holy See. Both Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics ARE in union with the Holy See. They are one, not separate, and therefore should not be listed as two separate movements. 174.48.73.196 (talk) 18:48, 10 August, 2010 (UTC)
{{editprotected}} hi, in the Abrahamic denominations could you please delete the 'rastafari', 'gnosticism', and 'samaritanism' due to their small numbers and undue weight please? The other 4 abrahamic religions bha'i, judaism, islam and christianity each have over 5 million adherents whereas the other religions each have less than 1 million. Thank you for your consideration.Jigglyfidders (talk) 11:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
{{editprotected}}
{{edit protected}}
or maybe we should reach a consensus?Jigglyfidders (talk) 21:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
the 3 main branches of christianity are protestant, catholic and orthodox. as such, could u please change the eastern term to orthodox please? thanksJigglyfidders (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply] or i'll do it myself and you can undo if you see disagree okay?Jigglyfidders (talk) 21:14, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have reverted a recent edit that removed JWs and LDSs from the template.
I do not believe that this should be done without discussion and agreement from the editors working on this template. Bill Jefferys (talk) 22:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have reverted the recent edit that removed JWs and LDSs from the template.
This should not be done unless it is discussed and there is general agreement that this is appropriate action. Bill Jefferys (talk) 22:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
|answered=
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Will include 'Iglesia Ni Cristo' (Church of Christ) among non-trinitarian groups.
Chivasunrated (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
make Western a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Christianity 87.238.84.64 (talk) 23:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, the Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saint movement are being removed from the template. These currently appear on the core topic list, so shouldn't they appear unless there is a clear consensus that they should not? Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest, to add this article here the Template which is: Role of the Christian Church in civilization, Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization and Civilization in genereal.[1][2][3][4][5] And i think this topic is important to be added here since it's important in the Christian and world history and since Until the Age of Enlightenment,[6] Christian culture guided the course of philosophy, literature, art, music and science in the western world. --Jobas (talk) 16:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
References
I inserted small portal links on this templates. Do you think this was a good idea? Do you support its inclusion in the templates? Please answer.--Broter (talk) 08:22, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be possible to add a link with a logo to the Index article for Christianity (Index) on the bottom bar? Orthorhombic, 03:18, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Tahc. The consensus at the 'core 100' list seems to be to add Saint Joseph's page to the list. The page has been on this template for quite awhile, without revert, and with the discussion (although limited to three editors) stalled it would seem to confirm the page for the list. I'm surprised at the lack of editors who comment on these, but that is a side issue. Instead of removing the page from this template, please add the page to the core list. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:48, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The whole affair with the locking of Wikipedia content to that "core list", has been questioned. It is not unlikely that some even find this assertion obstructing. Chicbyaccident (talk) 08:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I realised that in order to have a discussion of improvement, some concrete draft needs to be presented. Voilà. Feel free to improve. I tried to make the template less Euro-centric, less Protestantism-centric (yet with unproportionately more details on Protestantism still), and more emphasising the overview by means of accessing the larger branches/organisations/groups rather than arbitrarely shuffling in free-floating tenets in various subsections. The intention is to bring about a better, more collected overview. The history section has also been sized up in resolution a bit. PPEMES (talk) 00:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The idea that this template should convey that Western Christianity and Eastern Christianity is the most important dividing dimension is absurd. So is the selection of denominations within these categories. PPEMES (talk) 14:22, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A you can see in the draft, the Western/Eastern divide is reflected, but denominations are grouped into "Major branches" - namely Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Protestantism and Nestorianism - in the same fashion as the "By tradition" section in Template:Christian theology. That satisfies both WP:NPOV and WP:GLOBAL more than Western/Eastern as sole sorting. A sorting that is irrelevant and even arguably WP:FRINGE to most users. I therefore intend to add that again (while keeping the Western/Eastern divide as seen in the draft), if you don't offer more convincing arguments for why the "Major branches" must not be reflected in the template. It is not proportionate that minor Protestant denomations should take up all the space in the list of denominations like in the concurrent state. PPEMES (talk) 23:07, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
New template focusing on Christian denominations created at Template:Christian denominations. PPEMES (talk) 18:15, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please add Documentation after making Changes to Template. Template:Christianity footer/doc Stalin Sunny Talk2Me 07:35, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Had added Great Commandment as the second stand-alone entry in the "Theology" section, but was reverted per controversial. The two commandments, usually looked upon as a single topic, seem to be at the core of the early creation and theological point-of-view of Christianity (see Golden Rule). Viewing the other topics in the "Theology" section of the template, a link to Great Commandment doesn't seem out of place. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:54, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Should the Hussite Wars be added to the Middle Ages subsection of the History section? They were an important forerunner to the Protestant Reformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.172.21.81 (talk) 09:24, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The nav template has recently seen some large additions, and some whip-sawing back and forth. Maybe there should be a discussion about inclusion criteria. That is, since there are over 70,000 articles in Wikipedia on Christianity to choose from, it would make sense to have some overarching principles or guidelines on how to decide generally what to include, rather than debate articles one by one, or just randomly add them. Otherwise, I'm afraid the template could suffer from idiosyncratic nav link creep, and end up bloated beyond recognition or usefulness. Please see the discussion on a similar topic at Template talk:Christianity sidebar#Inclusion criteria. Thoughts? Mathglot (talk) 08:24, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Crusades article in on this template is pretty much MILHIST, through WP:COMMONNAME this has settled on a scope of military campaigns to Jerusalem from 1099 to 1276. Crusading movement covers the instituitions from the 11th century, until the 19th.
Proposal would be to swap the articles on the template. Norfolkbigfish (talk) 08:12, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]