Talk:Derry/Archive 10

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Archive 5

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Archive 8

Archive 9

Archive 10

I know, it's that argument again, but I do not think the statement in the article is properly sourced. "More usually" is a very weaselly way of putting it (What does that even mean?) and it is common sense that 'Londonderry' is used very frequently. So, it's NOT obvious that 'Derry' is the most commonly used without some source to guide us.

One of the references is lonely planet (which doesn't have a particularly high level of editorial control) and the 'Derry Journal' (which is an Irish Nationalist newspaper). I can't find any other sources saying that it's 'usually known as Derry' outside of blogs/other wikis that seem to be using exactly the phrasing here (i.e. they're using Wikipedia as a source). The Derry/Londonderry_name_dispute article does not say Derry is a more common name, so I think the naming section here should reflect that.

Obviously not just going to change it, but I think it needs discussion, is there a better source available? Some official or government source saying that the common use is 'Derry'? JeffUK (talk) 12:22, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Talking to myself here! This seems to be a good academic reference: "... the city is commonly known as 'Derry'. That also appears to be the predominant vernacular usage, regardless of ethnic association." https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Re_Visioning_Europe/zR3uCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 . I do think 'commonly known as' reads better and is easier to understand, I'm going to add the source and reword it, I think it's a synonym of what we're saying anyway so hopefully not too contentious JeffUK (talk) 12:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

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Change Seamus Heaney year of death to 2013 under Notable People. 24.220.72.174 (talk) 20:36, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Done. Seasider53 (talk) 21:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

bbc tv presenter.Specialising in moon.landings.and space craft and Nasa. Just look at his presentation of spacerocket takeoff..on utube. Had to be done perfect. No retakes here. should be included in famous people. Should be given feedom of the City 2A04:4A43:89AF:FE67:C5B5:E5F2:9520:33C3 (talk) 20:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

I have included him. Canterbury Tail talk 20:36, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

The footnote next to the name "Londonderry" in the lede seems to suggest that "Doire Cholmcille" is the Irish equivalent of "Londonderry". Is this really accurate? – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 20:27, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

No, "Doire Cholmcille" is not an equivalent of "Londonderry". It is an alternative to "Doire" though rare, in the same way that "Londonderry" and "Derry" are alternatives in English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:148A:9B01:899F:8F22:E22A:4EC0 (talk) 11:21, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

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Change Londonderry to Derry 89.125.5.66 (talk) 00:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Not done. See WP:DERRY. Canterbury Tail talk 00:58, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

The redirect (London)derry has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 9 § (London)derry until a consensus is reached. Okmrman (talk) 19:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Before even attempting to edit on this issue I'd like to seek advice from more experienced editors. I've read carefully through the naming convention material and understand perfectly the balance many sensible people are trying to strike. My issue is this:

It has always been my contention (and I promise I have no axe to grind) that everyone in Derry called it Derry. Just because it was easier to say and regardless of the fact that everyone knew the official name. My considered opinion is that this contretemps over the name started as a result of statements by prominent unionist politicians in the 1970's. My memory suggests that the well known Dr Paisley may well have been the originator.

I have evidence to support my views in the shape of a video from the BBC which clearly shows loyalist graffiti from the 1960's which states "Derry Says No Surrender, Britannia Rule".

What would the wisdom of more experienced users be on the use of this evidence. How would one word the text which could go with it?

I've struggled with this issue for months but don't want to make the mistake of editing the information in for it to cause nothing but a pile of trouble as I can see from this, and other pages, that the issue is a sensitive one. Leitrim Lad (talk) 16:16, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

The video of the graffiti would be a primary source, whereas adding something along the lines of "prior to the 1970s, it was common for the majority of the city's residents to use the name Derry" would require secondary sources (i.e. those that provide a survey of the primary evidence such as the graffiti you mention, placing it in context). Cordless Larry (talk) 21:26, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

What should I select as copyright for the video or any stills from it? Leitrim Lad (talk) 16:15, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

I've had to forgo editing for a few weeks because of other things however I've now uploaded an image which I intend to use. I am however struggling with the copyright issues so please bear with me. It does transpire however that the original film footage was taken by British Pathe c 1920. Leitrim Lad (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Done, with some help from the Copyright Team. Should I now await the death threats? Leitrim Lad (talk) 16:06, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

It's a really interesting image, but the text you've added to the article needs a secondary source (as suggested above). The image doesn't establish that "it was common to most of the city's population to use the shorter name" (it's just one instance) and the idea that it "is well illustrated" needs to be attributed to a source. Who is saying that this is a good illustration? Such an assertion can't be made in Wikipedia's voice. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:16, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree. The claim that it was common on both sides prior to the 1970s isn't in any way supported by any of this. I think it's fascinating, don't get me wrong, and have a feeling it may well be true but we can't make that claim without references to back it up. Canterbury Tail talk 16:19, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, just as the way that Birmingham is often called Brum, it does mean that the official name of Birmingham is Brum. Yet, on the wikipedia entry for Birmingham, the title is Birmingham. Londonderry is shortened to Derry just because it is easier to say and quicker, the name is used by both unionists and republicans. Also, does this not also imply that Wikipedia has a political bias for the troubles/republicans? By using a made up name this could indirectly be seen as support for one side, not a very good look for wikipedias end... Sochonthis (talk) 15:44, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

my thought would be, I and many people from Birmingham call home " Brum " and we call ourselves " Brummies " . But I would expect Wikipedia to refer to Birmingham as Birmingham. 94.173.17.182 (talk) 15:53, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Consider that Wikipedia is a stickler for officialdome. For instance George Floyd was official "murdered" since a jury found Derek Chavin guilty of murder, even though all the evidence was against that. Consider as well that anyone who saw how the US presidential election as having been stolen have "falsely claimed" that is was stolen, I see no reason for Wikipedia to stray from officialdom. If the formal name of Derry is Londonderry, then it should be called Londonderyy. Full stop. Facts on the ground be damned. 2A02:2454:985E:8900:8DEA:ED60:87CE:54DB (talk) 21:28, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

I think a criminal trial finding someone guilty of murder is substantial evidence to say the victim was murdered. And there is no credible evidence to say the US presidential election was stolen; to not label these claims as false would be to legitimise a baseless conspiracy theory. Timceharris (talk) 12:52, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Its legal and official name is Londonderry 174.45.133.208 (talk) 03:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, as is already explained in the article. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:00, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no mention of healthcare and hospitals in the city here, such as Altnagelvin Hospital. Also the fact that the city hosts the only other medical school in Northern Ireland (the other is Belfast) is sure worthy of mention (see https://www.ulster.ac.uk/faculties/life-and-health-sciences/medicine). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.50.163.107 (talk) 00:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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Add the line "Derry also has a friendly rivalry with neighbouring city Strabane (add link) with which it shares a council" Irishriot9 (talk) 23:19, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

That would need a reliable source. Valenciano (talk) 23:23, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 23:41, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

https://www.derrystrabane.com/ for the council claim and i cant find a source for the friendly rivalry because thats all it is a friendly rivalry. If i means anything thats the city i was born in and my dad was born in strabane so he gets tore apart by his friends when they bring it up Irishriot9 (talk) 07:53, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

Personal knowledge just wouldn't be enough for that, sorry, it would need reliable sources which explicitly refer to the "friendly rivalry." Valenciano (talk) 08:14, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=27868.0 would this do? Irishriot9 (talk) 08:44, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

No, discussion forums aren't considered reliable sources. Please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:50, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/miracles-and-upsets-the-tyrone-v-derry-rivalry-is-back-1.4864673 how about this? Irishriot9 (talk) 09:18, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

That establishes that Derry GAA and Tyrone GAA are rivals, not that Derry and Strabane as places have a "friendly rivalry". Cordless Larry (talk) 09:32, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

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The disclaimer clearly states that it should be both. However the first line states "officially Londonderry" and the source is the Oxford dictionary. This is incorrect as it is officially "Derry/Londonderry" as per official road signs and map data. There is no official record stating that it is called Londonderry and no accurate or supporting source is provided. 2A02:C7C:E4AD:3500:7C4F:D8F8:CFC0:94C5 (talk) 17:31, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. meamemg (talk) 17:58, 14 August 2025 (UTC)