This template is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Video gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Video gamesTemplate:WikiProject Video gamesvideo game articles
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Should Online gambling be considered a video game genre? Or should it be put in the "Related concepts" section of the template? I mean, it has a huge effect on the whole experience, and might differ a lot in terms of gameplay as well. Thoughts? SharkD Talk 02:27, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-27T02:27:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-10-27T02:27:00.000Z-Gambling_as_genre?","replies":["c-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-10-27T02:27:00.000Z"]}}-->
I would think related concepts, if at all. I don't think "games of chance" are typically viewed as video games, even as they've moved into electronic mediums, but it's definitely at least tangentially related. Are there any particular games on PC or consoles that are say, slots or poker? What do we typically put in the genre field in those cases? -- ferret (talk) 12:30, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z","author":"Ferret","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-10-27T02:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-SharkD-2017-10-28T03:52:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z","c-SharkD-2017-10-28T03:57:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
We don't have a "Video games of chance" article, which would be ideal. And most games of this type are probably shovelware, unless real money is involved. Should we differentiate between virtual gambling games and games that involve real money? SharkD Talk 03:52, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-28T03:52:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-10-28T03:52:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Here is one example that seems popular (400k reviews/ratings, 10,000,000 - 50,000,000 installs). I don't know who reviews these games, and if they're reliable. SharkD Talk 03:57, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-28T03:57:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-10-28T03:57:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ferret-2017-10-28T13:52:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-10-28T03:57:00.000Z"]}}-->
A review of some articles in Category:Casino_video_games and a few related categories, the genres are all over the place, including "Gambling", "Casino", "Business Simulation", or simply "Cards", etc. I'd say Related concepts is probably the best place still. -- ferret (talk) 13:52, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-28T13:52:00.000Z","author":"Ferret","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ferret-2017-10-28T13:52:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-10-28T03:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-SharkD-2017-10-30T00:17:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-28T13:52:00.000Z"]}}-->
Which term should we use? There is already Online game in the template, which is very similar to Online gambling. SharkD Talk 00:17, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-30T00:17:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-10-30T00:17:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-28T13:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Can we move Artillery to the "Other genres" section? I don't think there are a whole lot of strategy or tactics in these games. They are more focused on the pointing, shooting and ballistics, and I think they don't fit very well in any of the other categories. SharkD Talk 02:32, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-27T02:32:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-10-27T02:32:00.000Z-Artillery","replies":["c-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:35:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-10-27T02:32:00.000Z"]}}-->
I'd more broadly discuss this at WP:VG. We need to address how Artillery game is described, and its currently built out as a part of a strategy sub-genre. I.e. it has {{VG Strategy}} at the top. -- ferret (talk) 12:35, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-27T12:35:00.000Z","author":"Ferret","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:35:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-10-27T02:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-EchoBlu-2019-09-24T14:24:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:35:00.000Z"]}}-->
Artillery is turn-based tactics. By definition, it is not strategy, but tactics. While there are simple Artillery games focused only on ballistics, games like Hogs of War are typical artillery games, with a lot of tactics in it. EchoBlu (talk) 14:24, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-09-24T14:24:00.000Z","author":"EchoBlu","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EchoBlu-2019-09-24T14:24:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-10-27T12:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Should MUD be moved to the MMO section? How "massive" are these games in terms of no. of concurrent players? SharkD Talk 01:00, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-07T01:00:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-11-07T01:00:00.000Z-MUD","replies":["c-Ferret-2017-11-07T01:07:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-11-07T01:00:00.000Z"]}}-->
Some of the largest would have had more than 100 on at one time. I don't know if any are still that big though. -- ferret (talk) 01:07, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-07T01:07:00.000Z","author":"Ferret","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ferret-2017-11-07T01:07:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-11-07T01:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:17:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-11-07T01:07:00.000Z"]}}-->
Here are some stats. Seems like most have fewer than 50 players on at one time. SharkD Talk 03:17, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-08T03:17:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:17:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-11-07T01:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ferret-2017-11-08T03:21:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:17:00.000Z"]}}-->
It's a different era. Popularity now is nothing like it was in the 90s and even early 2000s. The servers support far more than the current demand. Speaking from personal experience as a player, admin and developer once upon a time. -- ferret (talk) 03:21, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-08T03:21:00.000Z","author":"Ferret","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ferret-2017-11-08T03:21:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:25:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-11-08T03:21:00.000Z"]}}-->
Related discussion on Stack Exchange. It seems there are still several with more than 100 players online. SharkD Talk 03:25, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-08T03:25:00.000Z","author":"SharkD","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:25:00.000Z-Ferret-2017-11-08T03:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ferret-2017-11-08T03:30:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:25:00.000Z"]}}-->
Some of the real big ones were on AOL back in the day. GemStone IV had over 2500+ players online at its peak. Realms of Despair, as the flag ship for SMAUG, ran into the hundreds. Elendor used to have 100-150, but is now a graveyard. Everquest started it but WoW was a major killer for "text MMOs". -- ferret (talk) 03:30, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-08T03:30:00.000Z","author":"Ferret","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Ferret-2017-11-08T03:30:00.000Z-SharkD-2017-11-08T03:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Tower Defence has same story as MOBA. Both originated as a subgenre of RTS (as Warcraft 3 mods), but they are not RTS. Tower defence has turn-based elements in it. Someone can say that Tower defence is "real time"... "strategy", but don't take names of genres too literally when you try to define it. Tower defence is strategy, but real-time strategy games are something different.EchoBlu (talk) 14:35, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-09-24T14:35:00.000Z","author":"EchoBlu","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EchoBlu-2019-09-24T14:35:00.000Z-Tower_Defence","replies":[]}}-->
This template is starting to bloat again. Is it time for a set of inclusion criteria? Something like, only if the genre article is C class or better can it go on the template. Any thoughts?- X201 (talk) 10:23, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T10:23:00.000Z","author":"X201","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-X201-2020-05-22T10:23:00.000Z-inclusion_Criteria","replies":["c-Masem-2020-05-22T17:37:00.000Z-X201-2020-05-22T10:23:00.000Z"]}}-->
In doing research on the horror game genre, a couple scholarly articles pointed out that they've at times counted upwards of 40-45 distinct genres and that was in 2013-2015. I estimate, ignoring the last row in this, we're around 60. I don't think we're too far off, but that last row is getting a bit too weighty with things that are getting away from terms that are commonly mistaken for genres. For example, "Educational game" is reasonable to have there as it is not a genre but commonly mis-thought of as one, but "twitch gameplay" is decidedly not a genre, it is a gameplay concept (do we have a good landing page besides the glossary for gameplay concepts in general? that might help too). --Masem (t) 17:37, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T17:37:00.000Z","author":"Masem","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Masem-2020-05-22T17:37:00.000Z-X201-2020-05-22T10:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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MOBA should link to Multiplayer_online_battle_arena , an informational page, rather than the current destination, an exemplar list. 2600:1700:E8B0:5C00:69D3:1166:9693:62B9 (talk) 18:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230501184500","author":"2600:1700:E8B0:5C00:69D3:1166:9693:62B9","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2600:1700:E8B0:5C00:69D3:1166:9693:62B9-20230501184500-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_1_May_2023","replies":["c-Soetermans-20230501185200-2600:1700:E8B0:5C00:69D3:1166:9693:62B9-20230501184500"]}}-->
Done! soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK18:52, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230501185200","author":"Soetermans","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Soetermans-20230501185200-2600:1700:E8B0:5C00:69D3:1166:9693:62B9-20230501184500","replies":[]}}-->
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The ARPG (Action RPG) does not need have its own mini section or whatever. The RPG section as about as short as the Strategy Section. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 02:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240605022900","author":"QuantumFoam66","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-QuantumFoam66-20240605022900-Don't_revert_my_edit","replies":[]}}-->
