User talk:Rift

Hi, please see WP:PROD a prod cannot be replaced once it has been removed for any or no reason, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

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Not sure how and if it should fit in the Jimmy Dean article, but Jim Henson's first national television appearance was indeed on the Jimmy dean show. Here's a source [1], and here are some WP:PRIMARY sources as well [2],[3]. Jacona (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Feel free to add if cited reliably per WP:RS and WP:CITE. Rift (talk) 19:16, 16 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello, there. Would appreciate if you could suspend editing or reverting the Jess Margera page briefly until I complete editing the entire page, including assessing the references. Keystone18 (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi Rift — it doesn't matter since another article also provides his birthday, but this is not a WP:ABOUTSELF source relating to a third party, since it was published on the official Twitter of the New York Mets (and so should be considered authoritative as MLB team publications are considered authoritative about the players and personnel of the team). D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 16:45, 12 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I know that fact can be sourced, but I took it out because it's not true. From James Buchanan Downey's obituary: "He was predeceased by his brother, renowned film-maker and director, Robert Downey, Sr."

So it can't be SNL Downey, the one the article is about. It has likely been misattributed to him over the years by lazy sources, but unless SNL Downey is the one who just died (not possible), we should probably take it out. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:17, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Appreciate your view, but we have two reliable sources to source this claim, including a quote from James Downey himself, directly identified in the article as the SNL writer, who directly speaks about his nephew. The obituary (which is not a reliable secondary source) is probably mistaken, and is a good example of why we do not use primary sources. Let's leave it as is unless we get a reliable source to counter the claim. Rift (talk) 19:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Lol I'll agree to disagree on the obituary being "probably mistaken". Thanks for the level-headed reply anyway. I don't think it's true, but it's pretty minor compared to him being wrongly reported dead so I'll live. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the thanks. The obituary has none of the reliably-sourced details about SNL Downey correct: Downey is from Illinois, not New York; he graduated from a Catholic high school in Joliet, not the High School of Music and Art in New York; his middle name is Woodward, not Buchanan; and was born 1952-1953 according to the NYT, not 1949. Says nothing about being a Harvard graduate and absolutely zero about SNL, especially the fact that he's the longest tenured writer in its history. Primary sources must be used with extreme care, if at all (WP:BLPPRIMARY), and the obituary doesn't line up. Rift (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

See, I'm sure the obituary is telling the truth, but it's just about a different guy. The book it credits him with writing, Is Martha Stuart Living?, got him a New York Times profile which mentions his appearances on Kate & Allie and that he is the uncle of Robert Downey Jr. The obit also says he has a sister, Nancy Connor, a fact which also appeared in the NYT's obituary for Robert Downey Sr. Obviously I'm just filling up your talk page with spitballing now (sorry), but I feel like there's got to be something out there noting the confusion. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:04, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay, now we're getting somewhere with reliable sources. As I said above: "Let's leave it as is unless we get a reliable source to counter the claim." NYT article (which trumps the other two sources) is clearly talking about a different guy. I recommend making the change and doing a writeup on the talk page explaining it's probably not the same guy so it's not re-added. Good work. Rift (talk) 20:13, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Glad to hear it. Thanks for your input! Nohomersryan (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

You might be interested, so just for the record: James Woodward Downey, the SNL writer, is really the son of John Edward Downey and Mary Madelaine Downey, so he has no relation to Downey Sr. Here is his mom's obituary from 2010. Clearly not usable as RS, but better than nothing. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Nothing in this obituary contains proof these are Downey's relatives. "James M." (wrong middle initial) of New Canaan, Connecticut could easily be this reporter for the New Canaan Advertiser. Good example of why we use reliable secondary sources and do not interpret primary ones. Rift (talk) 20:03, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah,obviously you can make inferences (SNL Downey lived in New Canaan and obviously has Joliet ties), but nothing that cuts it as RS. Anyway I'll let you know if I find anything, hope you weren't bothered by my walls of text. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:11, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Did you read the Mushnick article? It makes it clear that the self-promotion is at the root of many inaccurate calls. Rory1262 (talk) 03:40, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

"a man who has always cherished the sound of his own voice while placing strained self-promotion over good-faith play-by-play" Rory1262 (talk) 17:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

You'd better review MOS:REFPUNCT again – be sure to read all the way to the end. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:50, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks; I hate it. Rift (talk) 01:09, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hey, I saw your reverts at Michael Madsen including [4]. As the other person is claiming that the source backs it up you should tell them why the source doesn’t verify the claim. Aaron Liu (talk) 00:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Before that user's edit, the birth date on Michael Madsen was listed as September 25, 1958, per the reliable Associated Press citation given (here). The user then deleted that source, adding one (here) that simply stated Madsen's age—no day, month or year of birth given. As this failed verification per WP:VERIFY, I reverted the edit with a clear citation of Wikipedia policy. Rift (talk) 01:06, 19 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

According to the quote, the older one also only stated the age. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:11, 19 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

The source stated Madsen's age (64) in the "[Today's] Birthdays" column on the date of publication, September 25, 2022. No additional citation needed for basic arithmetic per WP:CALC. Rift (talk) 01:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

I can’t access that, but thanks for pointing out the web link on the other talk page Aaron Liu (talk) 01:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

I saw that you had removed the DoB listed for Norm Abram as there was no source listed. I have found an applicable source (the production institution of his TV shows) that lists his age and month/day of birth (here). However, I am on the fence for re-adding it as your link to the manual states DoB is considered personal information of a living person susceptible to misuse/identity theft and I get the feeling Norm Abram values his privacy. WKatastrof (talk) 06:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I found that page as well. However, the article is undated, and making calculations from an undated article constitutes WP:OR. Rift (talk) 20:48, 28 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the clarification and reference. WKatastrof (talk) 01:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Explain why you took down a notable link from the BOSTON herald newspaper? Thid will be going to legal. Keep in mind your IP is recorded. {{subst:AN-notice}} ~~~~ Martytanaki (talk) 09:03, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

You are banned from editing that page due to repeated disruptive edits. You used a sockpuppet account to edit the page in violation of this ban, resulting in edits which were reverted (WP:SOCK). Here's the ongoing sockpuppet investigation regarding your behavior. Hope this helps. Rift (talk) 09:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for that last revert, now I can leave in peace. Sometimes an IP user can become relentless, if you know what I mean, so I wanted to check it out.

Regards, Bringingthewood (talk) 21:43, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

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https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Devil_Dog&diff=1182001071&oldid=1181980920 Well, what can I say, you are right: the hilarious grammar is not mentioned in the reference. But that was not what I tried to indicate here. Vielleicht kannst Du ja so gut Deutsch, dass Du verstehst, wie albern die pseudo-deutsche Grammatik klingt und wie extrem falsch der Ausdruck für Deutsche klingt. Zu vergleichen z.B. mit "Donnerblitzen" oder "Blinkenlights". All of which goes to show that "Teufel Hunden" was most likely not invented by native German speakers. Maybe you can find a way of resurrecting my remarks in the article so that no-one will be upset by the non-relationship with the given reference. Kind regards from a real German. -- Kku (talk) 20:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Here's my question: why do you think "Cleveland native" doesn't mean a person born in Cleveland? That is the usual meaning of the word (born in a place) — obviously it's not about belonging to an indigenous group here. Is it possible that this reporting is inaccurate? Sure, in the way any biographical detail might be inaccurate, but it is no reason to discount the statement. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 16:48, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

It's been my experience as a birthplace maven on Wikipedia that sources (and common parlance) using "native" use it to indicate where a person is from or grew up (which often overlaps birthplace). For example, Bruce Willis is frequently described as a "New Jersey native" even though he was born in West Germany. Is Willis a native of West Germany? Perhaps by the literal dictionary definition, but almost nobody would actually assert that. Chris Rock is a native New Yorker even though he was born in South Carolina and moved to the city shortly after his birth, et cetera.

So I've seen enough low quality sources introducing discrepancies between "native of" and "born in" to be wary. That said, I can respect your view and won't take any offense if you choose to re-add it. Rift (talk) 20:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I certainly wouldn't understand Willis to be a native New Jerseyan or Rock to be a native New Yorker (even though I would say that Willis is a New Jerseyan and Rock a New Yorker — just not native). Now, shaky use in some cases aside, I'd basically call these inconsistencies or ambiguities in reporting (which often crop up in various contexts). To be fair, many news stories will not actually necessarily focus on the fact of a person's birthplace — subjects are not usually asked to produce birth certificates — but I think that we should generally take the reported birthplace (as mentioned by a "native" line in a normally reliable source) to be accurate until and unless some other reporting comes out to indicate another birthplace. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 22:18, 4 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the reply. I'll continue to cite birthplaces only when explicitly stated as "born in," since I've seen too many discrepancies between "native" and where the person's actual birthplace ends up being, but I'm fine yielding in cases such as this. Rift (talk) 22:23, 4 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 411#RFC: Use of Rotten Tomatoes for biographical information. Rotten Tomatoes is a review aggregator. It's useful for determining the consensus of film reviews. However, it is not reliable for biographical information. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Considering this is a relatively new RFC and there was no consensus the last time I checked some months ago, I don't feel too embarrassed. Rift (talk) 05:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Rift:

I'd also like to point out that Allmovie is not a trustworthy source for biographical details as well. Which is why I'm reverting the articles you used it as a source for someone's DOB. It has the incorrect ones listed for some celebs. The biggest red flag regarding Allmovie is that it has Laverne Cox's birth year listed as 1984 and her true birth year(1972) was revealed years ago.[5] You also can't just use whatever websites you find online that show a DOB without considering whether or not it's a reliable source. Many of them don't indicate where they got that info from and like Allmovie many of them have the incorrect DOB listed for other actors. For all we know they could be web scraping. That's why the recent consensus for Rotten Tomatoes was made.

When it comes to WP:BLP the number of reliable sources is quite slim and there are only very few acceptable options. A truly reliable Secondary source(IE a magazine such as Entertainment Weekly, Los Angeles Times or New York Times. And preferably multiple of these) reporting their exact DOB. Or a social media post from the subject themselves where he or she confirms his or her birthday and preferably either his or her age or YOB in the same post as well. Failing either any of these, that info should kept out of articles for the time being.Kcj5062 (talk) 10:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Can you point me to the RFC/RS noticeboard discussion stating Allmovie is not reliable for birthdates? WP:RSP for RhythmOne shows no consensus and has not been deprecated. Rift (talk) 16:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Well there hasn't officially been any consensus for it, however I once asked an admin about this and they've stated that Wikipedia only includes info in BLP that are supported by reliable sources that have a reputation for thorough fact checking and accuracy and that Allmovie doesn't fit that criteria. And a site doesn't necessarily need a consensus here in order to tell if it's unreliable. Especially if they have info that's been proven to be incorrect. Here's some sites I've seen people try to use as refs that are not on the noticeboard, but have been reverted by admins as they're considered unreliable for WP:BLP.

Celebhealth[6] Celebmagazine[7] Thefamouspeople[8] The numbers.com[9] Biography.com [10].

And another thing Allmovie has going against it is if you go to the bottom of the actor bios, you'll see a fact sheet. It's the exact same as their bios at TVguide. The link for Laverene Cox's Allmovie is above. Now here's her TVguide bio.[11]. Not a good sign as it looks like they just copy/pasted that. I'll ping :@NinjaRobotPirate: and see what he has to say about this. Maybe we can reach a consensus here. But considering the evidence against Allmovie, it looks like it should be treated the same way Rotten Tomatoes is.Kcj5062 (talk) 20:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

It's certainly possible that Allmovie licenses its content to TV Guide, much the way that Allmusic licenses its biographies to iTunes, Tidal, and Amazon, so it's not necessarily an indictment of reliability that they have the same information.

Looking forward to other opinions on this. Rift (talk) 20:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Possibly. I'm just trying to be cautious when it comes adding DOBs. Because in the early life section of some celeb bios on Wikipedia, there's information such as what year they graduated high school or college and they don't match up to the birth year that many sites have listed. And some of the sources that are used come right from those school's webpages. Which are probably pretty reliable(if not the most reliable) sources when it comes to their education. Some celebs have never actually publicly disclosed their age or DOB and because many web sites web scrape without any regard to the reliability or the accuracy of the content, they end up having falsified DOBs online. This seems to be pretty common for voice actors in particular as well as models/actresses as they prefer to keep that sort of info private since ageism still exists in Hollywood. The Google knowledge panel web scrapes which is why it's considered unreliable. Kcj5062 (talk) 21:24, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

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Hi, Regarding your user warnings here, you gave them 6 warnings. Usually, you should give out 4, then report to AIV and/or ANI if the behavior continues. 𝑭𝒊𝒍𝒎𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔 (talk) 22:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for letting me know. Already opened noticeboard case here. Rift (talk) 22:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

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Why did you remove my additions that sources differ about his year of birth? I added two sources that supported 1957 as the year of birth and many arrticles, including LA times gives his age as being born in 1957. DrKilleMoff (talk) 20:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

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As you know, I just removed the unsourced info for Craig Olejnik and Victor Webster. Now, I will request you to find other famous actors and check if either their full name, date of birth and/or place of birth is unsourced by reading all citations. 73.116.124.181 (talk) 00:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

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YouTube aint no source. Use real sources . This website uses LEGACY.com, GENI and FAMILYSEARCH which are ANCESTRY BASED WEBSITES TRACING BACK YOUR OWN FAMILY RECORDS AND ANCESTRY meaning BIRTH , DEATH and MARRIAGE CERTIFICATES. THIS IS A LEGIT SOURCE , NOT A DRUNK YOUTUBE PODCAST . I was told Youtube is not allowed more than a year ago when I posted it, it wasnt legit enough .

Place of Birth: Chelsea, Massachusetts, U.S. Date of Birth: c. 1986 Ethnicity: Ashkenazi Jewish Sam Morril is an American stand-up comedian, actor, writer, and producer. His mother, Marilyn Greenberg, is a painter, of abstract art. His biological father is Robert Elgort. Sam was raised by his mother and stepfather, attorney Mark Morril, and took his surname. His uncle is fashion photographer Arthur Elgort. Sam is a first cousin of photographer Sophie Elgort and actor and DJ Ansel Elgort, who are Arthur’s children. Sam was raised in New York. Sam has stated that both of his birth parents are Jewish; as is his stepfather. Sam’s paternal grandfather was Henech “Harry” Elgort (the son of Samuel Shimel Elgort and Etel/Ethel/Etta Ushomesky Schumerska). Henech was a Jewish emigrant from Roternissel, Russia. Samuel was born in St. Petersburg, the son of Mottel Elgort and Bloom. Etel was the daughter of Tellig Ushomesky Schumerska and Thena Kiratt. Sam’s paternal grandmother was Sophie/Sophia Didimamoff (the daughter of Rafael Didimamoff and Katharine/Katherine/Katarzyna/Catherine/Katherina Kurtz). Sophie was born in New York, to a father from Akhaltsikhe, Russian Empire, now Georgia; and a mother from Lemberg, Austria, now in Lviv, Ukraine. Sam’s grandmother’s exact heritage is not clear. She had a Catholic funeral (she re-married to a Catholic). It is not clear if she was of Jewish heritage, but it is possible, given her emigrant roots in Lviv and the surname Kurtz. Sam’s uncle Arthur, at least, had a Bar Mitzvah ceremony and attended a Jewish summer camp, and Sam has referred to his father as Jewish. Sam’s maternal grandfather was named George Greenberg. George was chairman and chief executive of Loehmann’s, the women’s clothing store chain in the Bronx. Sam’s maternal grandmother was Frances Lily Huberman (the daughter of Morris Huberman and Celia Stern). Frances was born in Massachusetts, to Polish Jewish parents. Morris was born in Chełm, the son of Sol Huberman and Frieda Cooperman. Sources: Marriage announcement of Sam’s mother and stepfather – https://www.nytimes.com Genealogy of Sam’s father (through his father’s brother) – https://www.geni.com Sam’s paternal grandmother, Sophie/Sophia Didimamoff, on the 1910 U.S. Census – https://familysearch.org Sophie/Sophia Didimamoff on the 1920 U.S. Census – https://familysearch.org Sophie/Sophia Didimamoff on the 1930 U.S. Census – https://familysearch.org Obituary of Sam’s paternal grandmother, Sophie/Sophia (Didimamoff) Elgort Bednarczyk – https://www.newspapers.com Obituary of Sam’s maternal grandmother, Frances Lily (Huberman) Greenberg – https://www.legacy.com. Hebrew28 (talk) 19:18, 8 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia does not publish original research. Sorry. Rift (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

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What about a smerge to Esso Trinidad Steel Band? Bearian (talk) 18:37, 4 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

That squares with WP:BANDMEMBER. Done. Rift (talk) 00:12, 5 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

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Hi @Rift. I just wanted to let you know that I had to remove the date of birth that you added to an article about a living person because the only citation was to a birth announcement, which is considered a primary source since it was written by people directly involved (likely the parents). In this case, there was no secondary reliable sourcing that the person named in the birth announcement was the same as the subject of the article, and there was not sourcing to support the date of birth being "widely published by reliable sources" or that "the subject does not object to the details being made public". Please see WP:BLPPRIMARY for the policy on the use of primary sources in biographies of living people, as well as WP:DOB for the sourcing requirements for when you can include a date of birth in an article. Thanks, and happy editing! --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 14:40, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've cited her high school and college graduation dates, so any interested party can do the simple arithmetic. Rift (talk) 19:14, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Despite my 19 YEARS on Wikipedia, I've almost never interacted on Talk pages even to remember after all this time that this was the means to settle this nonsense that you apparently couldn't bother to suggest instead of repeatedly playing games with information on the subject in question that you persist in perpetuating totally unnecessary errors. While I could recognize and accept that IMDb is not considered by Wikipedia to be a reliable source, I took the time and effort to find the New York Times as well as The Wall Street Journal – acknowledged reliable sources – specifically state the age of the subject as of June 2025 publication date as 68: completely refuting any prior claim of a birth year in "1955 or 1956." I also made sure to include the necessary full source reference AND relevant quote: all to no avail when for the fourth? FIFTH TIME? the page was still reverted to that SAME erroneous text despite a new hidden note that the year could be either 1956 or 1957 based on MY citation.

And the ultimate proof that this continuing abuse is purely spiteful is the additional correction of the second wife's name from the SAME New York Times article. As well as the subject's own book publisher. Yet once again, completely dismissed with reversion to the same previous error for that name. Inexcusable. I know the subject and would imagine he couldn't care less whether his birthdate here is correct or even appears at all. Nonetheless, I believe my considerably extensive history of contributions without incident should not necessarily grant me any benefit of the doubt so much as simple courtesy I know for a fact this site has declared and maintained as a logically practical standard of behavior for precisely such situations and interactions.

Bad enough Wikipedia apparently insists ONLY sources deemed reliable must be quoted ONLY from readily searched ONLINE sites: in the immediate case, even the subject's own autobiography just published last month would not suffice with mention as early as page 7, "Christmas time, 1978. I had just turned twenty-two." Which can only mean December, unless this argument must get even more ridiculous suggesting it could have been any earlier month. That conforms exactly to every source, deemed reliable or not, indicating December 1, 1956.

I vaguely remember only one other such egregious conflict perhaps ten or more years. I don't recall how that ever got resolved, but notwithstanding my frustration with Wikipedia's user-unfriendly arcane and obtuse Help instructions and processes, let alone all this ridiculous contention, I've made the case here in proper good faith and would appreciate for once a mature response in kind. And unless you are intent to prevent others at Wikipedia from learning of all this or interceding, it would still demonstrate some effort to rectify this situation by simply informing how and where I may seek proper adjudication as I also had requested repeatedly. RRawpower (talk) 16:53, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Regarding Larry Charles:

1. You failed to cite sources on these two edits. Pasting links into the edit summary does not constitute citing sources. As I have repeatedly suggested, please read WP:CITE for a step-by-step guide to citing sources, and WP:RS for choosing reliable sources.
2. Assuming a birth year based on an age as of date constitutes WP:OR: ...any analysis or synthesis of published material that reaches or implies a conclusion not stated by the sources. A person who is 50 in 2025 may be born in 1974 or 1975, depending on whether his or her birthday has yet occurred that year. That is why we have the Template:Birth based on age as of date, which you have repeatedly removed from the page. Additionally, using "Christmas time, 1978. I had just turned twenty-two" to assert a birthdate of December 1 also constitutes original research. Combining interpretations of multiple sources to reach a conclusion not explicitly stated in the sources constitutes WP:SYNTH.
3. You might also brush up on WP:POLITE. I am surprised someone who has been on Wikipedia so long is rudely yelling in capital letters when completely unsourced edits are contested. Best of luck. Rift (talk) 17:47, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

"Your edit on ‪Larry Charles‬ was reverted. Undid revision 1299646653 by RRawpower (talk) Revert unsourced birth year (not in citation; WP:VERIFY)"

Now you've gone too far. Only because your own immediately preceding exchange directly above absolutely gives the lie to your deliberate and willful abuse and hypocrisy claiming the birth year itself was not in citation despite the age as of the current year as previously stated.

"I've cited her high school and college graduation dates, so any interested party can do the simple arithmetic. Rift (talk) 19:14, 29 June 2025 (UTC)"

You can "do the simple arithmetic" when it suits you, but disallow anyone else from the same perfectly rational logic?? Or just me? And still changed the second wife's name back despite "better source needed" which must dictate removal alone on the basis of even less reliable sourcing than I have repeatedly provided!

And I did not see any note anywhere referring me to WP:CITE.

RRawpower (talk) 18:07, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

• What I am free to do: Assume while reading Wikipedia that someone who graduated high school in 2004 was born in 1986.
• What I am not free to do: Assert on Wikipedia that someone was born in 1986 because she graduated high school in 2004.

You were referred to WP:CITE and WP:RS in the edit summaries of my reversions.

This conversation has run its course. I hope you go forward with WP:CIVILITY in mind, remembering to cite your sources without resorting to WP:OR. Good luck. Rift (talk) 20:13, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Without escalating this even more, I must say this specious argument disregards your own prior rationale of "simple arithmetic" in the same breath you've invoked it again here for the obvious reason it quite disingenuously implies my logic has been at all faulty since it's been consistently based on cited _age_ in given Wikipedia approved reliable sources: to wit, the New York Times, and Entertainment Weekly (Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources). Whereas your example of inference is inherently unfair and off point based only on what _you_ suggest is a most typically common age for high school graduation at a given point of time: _not_ specific _age_!!

And beyond my actually knowing better than to jump to any such conclusion on a faulty premise in the first place, that particular example could not be more ironic in my own case for the simple reason that _I_ actually graduated from high school at age 17 in 1971, having been born in January 1954. Which also happens to factor in to some extent with this similarly tricky proposition of reliably confirming Larry Charles' age since we were both born at the beginning or end of our respective birth years.

That said, I trust the listed reliable source should legitimately qualify my last and presumably final edit – for now, should I ever manage to nail down December 1 satisfactorily since I also looked up and learned that citing Wikipedia itself is unacceptable as circular sourcing, ruling out the December 1 date entered on the Swedish Wikipedia site: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Charles. All of which I would understand and accept better in general but for the apparent lack of any such stringent sourcing in many other such biography pages. While Larry David serves readily to demonstrate a direct link to his Brittanica entry right at the start, birthdate included, there is no source or any sort of qualification I can find at all for Bernie Saunders own birthdate. Or for much or most of that page's lengthy introduction, unless perhaps its original submission may have been accompanied by sufficient verification that still did not warrant inclusion on the page itself for some reason.

I personally and professionally have tended to be very methodical with a stringent eye for detail, to a fault at times, to appreciate and respect and especially adhere to Wikipedia's standards and practices. While it might appear that I simply ignored the series of email notices of reversions, I certainly took note of each but concede overlooking WP:CITE which, in any event, is still such an exhaustive and exhausting page to wade through, given how massive the site understandably is, that I still can't begin to grasp what specific point was supposed to apply to the immediate case. Of the 40 instances of the word "date" on the WP:CITE Citing sources page, the vast majority seem to refer to publication dates or archive dates with a smattering on style. In other words, I wouldn't expect or suggest it should specifically spell out terms for "birthdate" per se, but it still goes to demonstrate _your_ undue assumptions in putting the onus on the contributor. Something short and practical in plain English would go a long way, short of "hand holding."

For that matter, most disconcerting – and telling – about all this, again putting the onus on me, the contributor, is effectively pushing me to the point of remembering and finding the talk page to initiate any responsible conversation. However busy or even overwhelmed I realize most of the site's volunteer organization must certainly be, all this agitation might have been avoided early on had you taken infinitely less time than it ultimately entailed to go to _my_ talk page and provide a sentence or two of practical guidance rather than WP:CITE shorthand to a page that still fails to relate to the actual disagreement. All the more reason every single attempt I made to comply as best as possible really did appear to be reverted arbitrarily without any sensible explanation – especially when time and again I did indeed meet all the source requirements to no avail.

Much as I resisted making the point before, I have to say the handle more than suggests some inclination for conflict that I'd otherwise have no reason to give a second thought to "Rift." But you might very well going forward with others here. Civility goes both ways. RRawpower (talk) 21:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

And after all that I now see you just went ahead and had at it all over again anyway. You are really out of control if you think you can disregard the SAME criteria you accepted previously for changing the years based on the New York Times but now refuse simply because of an article from Entertainment Weekly which IS another reliable source on the actual Wikipedia LIST that I even provided. And worst of all, regardless of the question of the source altogether, 1957 is just as bad an error as 1955 that you have NO business falsely repeating again and again and again.

If you think you're going to keep intentionally aggravating me personally for no other reason than you have some ridiculous ego trip of authority, you have another thing coming. RRawpower (talk) 22:02, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

You seem extremely confused and angry about basic Wikipedia principles, such as WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Rather than discussing this further, I encourage you to take your grievances to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests, so long as you're aware that your edits on Larry Charles and your behavior here will be scrutinized. Have a nice day. Rift (talk) 22:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

And you will be scrutinized for deliberately repeatedly entering false information (1957) wholly on the misguided principle of adherence to one Wikipedia standard prohibiting synthesis while simultaneously violating a far more important rule on knowingly and repeatedly submitting verifiably false information. The detail in question may not be critical but the arbitrary, inconsistent, and demonstrably negligent invocation of conflicting Wikipedia rules and equally conflicting application of them must certainly be duly investigated. As will your violation of excessive reversions, regardless of my distressed CAPS and justifiable outrage at your provocative escalations as noted previously.

The most significant discrepancy is all this is one particular assertion that one or more reversions were made because a given source did not provide a specific birth _year_ but only age which was then still the _only_ basis, including a quote of said age, for persisting with yet another false or half false reversion. It cannot be both ways: if the year must be verified from a reliable source and may not be inferred/deduced/calculated from a cited age at a reliable source's point in time, in the absence of any cited birth year the only possible solution was to dispense with that detail on the page altogether. And worst still, reverting once again to the erroneous "possible" years based on only one age citation is as illogical as it is false simply to comply with some Wikipedia guideline that cannot possibly be the site's ultimate intention at the expense of its credibility.

You are receiving an AN-3 notification accordingly. RRawpower (talk) 23:53, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Editor repeatedly replacing verifiable fact from numerous reliably sourced citations with blatant falsehood and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, RRawpower (talk) 23:44, 24 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

This request has been declined. For the Arbitration Committee, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:54, 24 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Your revision of the edit on the Corporal rank is factually untrue. Almost ALL Private First Class soldiers are promoted to Specialist E-4 (see https://www.army.mil/ranks/) read the description of Specialist. To become a corporal a PFC or almost ALWAYS a Specialist must attend BLC - Basic Leadership Course to be promoted to Corporal. (see https://www.wearethemighty.com/popular/specialist-vs-corporal/) (Basic Leader Course)

TexasBob85 (talk) 21:33, 14 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Enter his name into any search engine and his birthday will come up August 23. Why don’t you agree with that? NYC Guru (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Since you clearly did not read my edit summary, I'll summarize these basic Wikipedia principles here: you must cite your sources (WP:CITE). Pasting links in the edit summary does not constitute citing sources. Further, the sources must be reliable (WP:RS) with reputation for fact checking and editorial oversight. Astrology sites, "famousbirthdays.com", and other WP:USERGENERATED WP:CONTENTFARM sites are not reliable sources. Hope this helps. Rift (talk) 22:30, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

also when you enter “Joey Cramer” into google or any other search engine it will say his birthday is “August 23”. Try and you will see. NYC Guru (talk) 08:53, 24 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi Rift. Thank you for your work on Chrysler Institute of Engineering. Another editor, SunDawn, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Thank you for creating the article! Have a blessed and beautiful weekend!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ Contact me! 04:19, 6 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, you've broken the references I mended. The date inside the harvnb has to match the date in the citation template, which is 1899. DuncanHill (talk) 19:48, 18 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have removed the incorrect date from the citation template. Rift (talk) 19:55, 18 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Fred Willard, a link pointing to the disambiguation page Prep school was added.

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Hi, I disagree with this reversal cuz 1) we have WP:IGNORE, and WP:SENSE states, "Instead of following every rule, it is acceptable to use common sense as you go about editing. Being too wrapped up in rules can cause a loss of perspective, so there are times when it is better to ignore a rule. Even if a contribution "violates" the precise wording of a rule, it might still be a good contribution." 2) like I said, most Britons identify as British citizens, not United Kingdom citizens, see Talk:J. R. R. Tolkien/Archive 6#Infobox formatting; and this one cuz 1) I definitely don't see how it's against MOS:INFONAT to write |citizenship=Canada|US (from 2005) rather than |citizenship=Canada|United States (from 2005) 2) MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE states, "... information should be presented in a short format wherever possible, ...", and there's a consensus against spelling out "US" or "U.S." in |birth_place= and |death_place=. Thedarkknightli (talk) 13:43, 18 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

Any objections if I restore my edit? Thedarkknightli (talk) 22:27, 19 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

Regarding Audrey Hepburn, I appreciate your enthusiasm for this, but I don't see how it overrides the plain-as-day instructions to use a country name and not a demonym. I am earnestly unsure what's confusing about this. This person is a citizen of the following country: The United Kingdom.

If you feel the Alanis Morrissette article is better served by "U.S.," feel free to change it back. Rift (talk) 22:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

Well, it seems to me that you're wikilawyering ... Thedarkknightli (talk) 23:08, 19 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

Even Pope Leo XIV does using United States, instead of "US" or "U.S." Absolutiva 23:40, 22 March 2026 (UTC)Reply

You're very fond of citing this - TRY READING WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS! Johnbod (talk) 00:34, 7 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Let's take a look at MOS:INFOEDU:

...name of the last-attended institution of higher education (not secondary schools)

I removed Lancing College, a secondary school, which you restored.

It is usually not relevant to include either parameter for non-graduates, but article talk page consensus may conclude otherwise...

Waugh dropped out of Oxford and there is no talk page consensus regarding the inclusion of this field for a non-graduate.

I'm very surprised that someone who must be at least 35 years of age (judging by registration date) is name-calling in edit summaries, but your lack of WP:CIVILITY is noted. Sad. Rift (talk) 01:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

It passed FAC in that state - raise it on the talk if you like. Make all the notes you like! Johnbod (talk) 03:20, 7 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 20:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Charley Drayton as the B-52s drummer is hardly controversial, and is actually mentioned on the B-52s page! You don't have to footnote everything. Drayton played on the band’s biggest single, Love Shack. Google it! Or, better still, ah, look on flipping Wikipedia! ElectricRay (talk) 21:31, 15 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Glad to hear there is a plethora of reliable sources available to cite. Rift (talk) 23:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Rift ! You are deliberately adding a certain misinformation to a BLP. When I explained to you in my edit summary, you have bombarded the page with multiple templates. What's the issue? Thisiscarmend (talk) 01:28, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

1. Just because a person being profiled by a New York-based Italian-American magazine does not mean that person lives in New York. It's stated nowhere that she lives in New York, and assuming so is WP:OR, which has no place on Wikipedia.

2. My reasons for adding notability and source tags are in the edit summary and the article's talk page. Feel free to engage there. Rift (talk) 01:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

1. But just because you want to push a certain point of view, you cannot add Mumbai. That article is from 2021. And the most recent source implies that it is from Italians based in New York. Yes, and it 9s nowhere stated Mumbai either. You are into adding some wrong information here right from the beginning. Why are you creating your own version? If a consensus is not reached, don't add it. But the point is doin't add wrong/incorrect information it is a living person.
2. You should have discussed it on the talk page first. Your reasons for all those tags together are because you are angry that I reverted your edits and you poring it through disrupting that page.
3. Please, let us reach a consensus. Don't vandalize pages to enforce a POV.

Thisiscarmend (talk) 01:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

1. Incorrect; source states "As she continues to work toward her music career from her home in Mumbai..."

2. You have addressed none of the issues raised by the notability and sources tags despite me giving my detailed rationale.

3. That is what the article's talk page is for. I also suggest you brush up on what vandalism actually is: WP:VANDALISM. Rift (talk) 01:51, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisiscarmend (talk • contribs) 01:49, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Rift its the third time I'm informing and requesting you, wait for editorial consensus. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisiscarmend (talk • contribs) 02:10, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi, a discussion has started on the Truss Talk page, if you'd like to contribute? I've been maintaining your position of the primacy of the institution over the college in recent revisions but am not an expert on that subject. Cheers Billsmith60 (talk) 10:33, 30 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

Can we merge this to Ted Nugent or another band? Bearian (talk) 01:10, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

That's a good idea. Done! Rift (talk) 01:50, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. Bearian (talk) 01:56, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

why cant he have a birthday on his wikipedia page? every time someone tries to add it you remove it. if the sources arent reliable enough cant you go and find one that is reliable? i dont think its acceptable to have a wikipedia page for someone and their birthday and full name and where they are born isnt even on it ~2026-28040-12 (talk) 21:34, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

• Rift, you could've answered this here real quick and easy by pointing out that IMDB is not to be used for BLP info. Drmies (talk) 21:47, 13 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

  Did so in multiple edit summaries and on user's talk page. Rift (talk) 21:55, 13 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi Rift, I've noticed you also like to edit This Old House related pages. I'm not super experienced editing Wikipedia so I'm seeking other opinions. I noticed today that the pages for Roger Cook, Tom Silva, and Richard Trethewey have disappeared. It looks like one user removed the pages because "notability is not inheritable" or something to that effect and now they redirect to the main This Old House page. This seems extreme. Maybe the User could have called for more sources? Or should a 'Request for Deletion' process have been submitted? I'm not sure, but I'd hate to see the pages disappear. What do you think? WKatastrof (talk) 22:13, 13 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi WK, redirecting those pages might have been a little heavy-handed on that editor's part, but it's possible to restore those pages if necessary. If you're prepared to add some reliable sources (WP:RS) that would sweeten the deal. Let me know what you think. Rift (talk) 06:53, 2 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

I sourced the whole article https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandon_DiCamillo&oldid=1354130081 Wtf are you doing? ~2026-27503-96 (talk) 14:09, 14 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

You reverted to an old version of the page which destroyed many subsequent improvements, such as links, wording, source metadata and tags. You also introduced WP:IMDB for several sources, which is not a WP:RS. I am requesting that instead of restoring the old version, you work your sources into the existing page, allowing us to keep recent improvements as well as your own new ones. Thanks. Rift (talk) 14:12, 14 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

https://tvovermind.com/brandon-dicamillo-career/

This can be used, it covers his whole career ~2026-27503-96 (talk) 14:23, 14 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

I wouldn't use that source, as it has all the hallmarks of a content farm/web scraper. Reliable sources ideally have a reputation for fact-checking and editorial oversight. There's a discussion on TVOverMind on WP:RSN which may be helpful. In the meantime, I'll see if I can dig up some concrete WP:RS to use. Rift (talk) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi, this is regarding your re-addition of Robert Goulet as a "Canadian American" in the lede of his article. As established by the sources in the body, Goulet was a native-born American citizen who never held Canadian citizenship. It's fine to call him an ethnic Canadian-American in the body if you like, but not in the lede, per MOS:NATIONALITY: "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability." Goulet is notable because he was a successful singer and actor, not because he had Canadian parents. I also rolled back your re-addition of much unsourced material I removed, such as Goulet considering himself a Canadian citizen ("thought of himself as Canadian" is ambiguous), paying Canadian taxes and owning property in Montreal—none of this is in the citation given. Thanks. Rift (talk) 19:28, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi, Rift. With respect to notability, Goulet's formative years, Québecois cultural and linguistic background, and complete secondary and post-secondary education, early career on stage and television, were in Canada, and his French Canadian accent and background was pivotal in his choice of performing roles, most notably in his Tony Award winning role in "The Happy Times". His identification with these Francophone roles was dependent on his French Canadian background, thus it is a significant aspect of his public performing identity. He continued to receive honours from Canadian institutions such as the Royal Conservatory 1993 designation of Fellowship. I could continue, but the fact that Goulet believed that he was a Canadian citizen until he was informed in 2006 otherwise shows that his ties to Canada were an intrinsic part of his public identity. The incident regarding the national anthem at the Muhammed ALi fight shows how significant his Canadian background was to his public identity, it accounted for his unfamiliarity with the words ofo the American anthem. That was a huge public incident in his career and required reference to his Canadian upbringing to explain.

Further, the application for Canadian citizenship which Goulet made in 2006 was approved according to your own citation source, so that information should be added to the citizenship area in the infobox. The only fact which might have prevented the citizenship from being registered was Goulet's passing, and even that is assuming that Goulet's citizenship was not registered. I do not see that we even know if his citizenship was finally registered, it could be that it was registered, that journal article was from 2007 right after Goulet's death. Tennisedu (talk) 21:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) Tennisedu (talk) 21:09, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi, thanks for getting back. Clearly this is a topic you take to heart.

MOS:NATIONALITY specifies that "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability." Clearly Goulet's ethnicity was something he held personally dear, but it has zero bearing on his notability. He wasn't made noteworthy by Canadian ancestry. By the same token, James Brown is black and proud, but per the guidelines, he's not described as an "African-American" in the lede, nor is Lawrence Welk described as "German-American." I do fully support the addition of the material you mentioned in the body of the article, but it doesn't belong in first sentence of the lede.

As for the citizenship in the infobox, MOS:INFONAT prescribes its use only for citizenships actually held, and the sources on this page indicate unequivocally that Goulet was never was a citizen of Canada. It even says "In complicated cases, omit from the infobox and explain in the article body". I don't think this even goes so far as to be complicated case, but if it was, it excludes putting this in the infobox.

That's my reasoning regarding the lede and infobox. Happy to work with you adding to the article's body. Rift (talk) 21:37, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hi again, Rift. The citation mentions that the Goulet application for citizenship was "approved" by the Canadian government, so that means surely something, namely that he was accepted as a citizen and would be getting official registration. Does that not count for something? It could be mentioned in the infobox that his citizenship application was approved. Tennisedu (talk) 22:31, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

I see you have been correcting some of the outrageously bogus vandalism by user "Ameture Historian" I saw an error he introduced in an article I was correcting (Steven Lalas article where that user had vandalized place of birth). Looking at Ameture Historian's editing history the first dozen I looked at were utter vandalism whe where they made a change with no citation or worse yet, putting a citation in that contained nothing whatsoever claimed in the changed texts. It has been a long time since I did any editing on wikipedia, and I do not know the process for having a high level editor go through and simply remove the tsunami of bogus claims they are introducing into so many articles. Anyway, thanks. Explaineringer (talk) 22:11, 17 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

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