I like to keep things compact, and don't have any great ideas for my user page yet, so my signature directs here.
I was a long-time reader and lurker (since 2003). I appreciate the Five pillars and the idea of open knowledge, and want to give something back; this is why I began editing in 2021. I'd like to receive your feedback on anything I've done. Expect a reply! :)
By the way:
I prefer to keep discussions unfragmented. If you start a new talk topic here, I will respond on this same page, as an effort to keep the entire conversation in one place. By the same token, if I leave a comment on your talk page, please respond to it there, using the ping template like this: {{ping|Alalch E.}}. If you want to initiate a conversation with me anywhere else, simply ping me there—no need to notify me here.
If a discussion here is about a specific article, I may move the discussion to that article's talk page. Were one to disagree I would tell them to treat it as my removing comments on my talk page and my quoting them on the target page. The Moved discussion to/from templates are useful here.
This page has archives. Sections older than 30.5 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 10 sections are present.
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On 23 November 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article StoneToss, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that X's rules were changed when StoneToss sought help from Elon Musk after an anti-fascist group published materials claiming to have revealed their identity? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/StoneToss. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, StoneToss), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cas Liber (talk·contribs) 00:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241123000300","author":"Casliber","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Casliber-20241123000300-DYK_for_StoneToss","replies":[],"displayName":"Cas Liber"}}-->
You have removed source references from the article Femke without good reason, which I consider to be vandalism. Please stop doing so and do not turn this into an edit war. – Editør (talk) 02:36, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241208023600","author":"Edit\u00f8r","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Edit\u00f8r-20241208023600-Removing_sources","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241208043700-Edit\u00f8r-20241208023600"]}}-->
You have accused me of vandalism. Prior to your leaving this message on my talk page, we have already been discussing this at Talk:Femke#References for each person. It's an editorial judgement call. I oppose your edit. Please find support for your idea. You can not enforce this through edit warring. —Alalch E.04:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241208043700","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241208043700-Edit\u00f8r-20241208023600","replies":["c-Edit\u00f8r-20241208105200-Alalch_E.-20241208043700"]}}-->
I believe your edits are intentionally disruptive, please stop. – Editør (talk) 10:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241208105200","author":"Edit\u00f8r","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Edit\u00f8r-20241208105200-Alalch_E.-20241208043700","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241208110300-Edit\u00f8r-20241208105200"]}}-->
I appreciate your concern, but now that other editors have been invited to review the practice of not having citations in anthroponymy lists (which is the existing practice), I find that it would be best to let the discussion unfold. Useful conclusions of a broader scope can be gained. I respect that you stand behind your edit, but I also stand behind my edit, and have a vision of what is an improvement in this regard that is different than yours. You are trying to make your position seem absolutely justified because you are adding references. Merely adding references, and the question here is where and for what purpose, does not invalidate other editors' views and does not make your idea of a change immediately enforceable. Please refer again to the Wikipedia:Editing policy. —Alalch E.11:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241208110300","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241208110300-Edit\u00f8r-20241208105200","replies":[]}}-->
If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.
If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. – Editør (talk) 11:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241208111100","author":"Edit\u00f8r","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Edit\u00f8r-20241208111100-Disruptive_editing","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241208113100-Edit\u00f8r-20241208111100","c-Alalch_E.-20241211095600-Edit\u00f8r-20241208111100"]}}-->
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Hi (again). How is Draft:Luigi Mangione duplicated by Killing of Brian Thompson? The draft is about the (supposed) killer himself, and last time I checked, a Luigi Mangione article doesn't exist and is just a section in an article, not meeting a fail for that reason. I'm even going to go ahead and say that you improperly used rollback as using it on an edit that wasn't vandalism/could be discussed, but oh well. EF513:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210134200","author":"EF5","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EF5-20241210134200-AFC","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241210134800-EF5-20241210134200"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
Hi. The contents duplicate the statements in Killing of Brian Thompson and the draft is predominantly about the event, which is typical for WP:BLP1E biographies. Even though it is titled after the biographical subject it isn't really a biography and does not cover a distinct subject from an existing article.—Alalch E.13:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210134800","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241210134800-EF5-20241210134200","replies":["c-EF5-20241210135000-Alalch_E.-20241210134800"]}}-->
Policy says otherwise. Sometimes new editors create a submission without checking to see if the subject already has a Wikipedia article. Do a quick search for the title of the suggested article, as well as any alternative names that come to mind. If you find an article on the same subject, decline the article. Consider making a redirect if the contributed name is useful. (excerpt from Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Reviewing instructions). I see no guideline that says drafts can be declined because they duplicate an existing section. EF513:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210135000","author":"EF5","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EF5-20241210135000-Alalch_E.-20241210134800","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241210140000-EF5-20241210135000"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
I left an AFC comment on the draft to state the reason more precisely. I don't agree that a "policy" says otherwise and stand by my decline. —Alalch E.14:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210140000","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241210140000-EF5-20241210135000","replies":["c-EF5-20241210140800-Alalch_E.-20241210140000"]}}-->
Yes, and I don't agree with the decline reason. I wouldn't mind bringing up the "section" question on WT:AFC, just to see if drafts can be declined for duplicating an existing section. EF514:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210140800","author":"EF5","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-EF5-20241210140800-Alalch_E.-20241210140000","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241210231300-EF5-20241210140800"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
I'm not going to do that, and you are welcome to, but I don't think that it would be a good use of anyone's time. —Alalch E.23:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210231300","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241210231300-EF5-20241210140800","replies":[]}}-->
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I'm proud today looking at how you're helping at Draft:Luigi Mangione and associated discussions. Nice managing of the deep muck around this sort of subject. It gets worse. Your BOLD is our friend here. Ask for help if you need it. Friendly advice: don't let yourself become part of the story. BusterD (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212150900","author":"BusterD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BusterD-20241212150900-Share_a_cup_with_me","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241212153900-BusterD-20241212150900"]}}-->
Fantastic to share a cup with you. It's coffee on my end though, as I did just finish making coffee. Thank you for the kind words and the advice. I'm always happy when we're active on the same pages. —Alalch E.15:39, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212153900","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241212153900-BusterD-20241212150900","replies":["c-BusterD-20241212155500-Alalch_E.-20241212153900"]}}-->
Always preferred tea. I went through a coffee phase when I was in college. Coffee always smells better than it tastes... These days I prefer a Builder's brew, something with a strong mouth. BusterD (talk) 15:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212155500","author":"BusterD","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BusterD-20241212155500-Alalch_E.-20241212153900","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241212160200-BusterD-20241212155500"]}}-->
Still a coffee and beer guy over here (edit: and kombucha, however). Not much fun in the drinks department. Definitely need to branch out. —Alalch E.16:02, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212160200","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241212160200-BusterD-20241212155500","replies":[]}}-->
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I would like to work up a new draft that could pass muster. Dylan Roof's page was put up and accepted the day after the Charleston Church Shooting. I think Luigi Mangione should have a separate page. How can I pause the redirect so I can create a page? ProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 07:34, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241213073400","author":"ProfessorKaiFlai","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213073400-New_version_if_Luigi_Mangione_article","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241213101800-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213073400"]}}-->
@ProfessorKaiFlai: You can create the new article directly in mainspace, over the redirect. Alternatively, you can edit the draft at Draft:Luigi Mangione until you're satisfied and submit it via AfC (currently, a version has been submitted, pending review). You can also create a wholly new draft in your userspace. You do not have to use AfC to move a draft to mainspace. You can not technically perform the move of the draft over the current redirect, but you can request an adminstrator or page mover to do it (which they might decline and point you toward AfC, but they might also accept, completely disregarding AfC, based on their independent editorial judgement); note that you can't request this at WP:RM/TR, as such requests are declined there. —Alalch E.10:18, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241213101800","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241213101800-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213073400","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241213121100-Alalch_E.-20241213101800","c-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213162600-Alalch_E.-20241213101800"]}}-->
About "pausing the redirect" in general: "To edit a page that is already a redirect (or to view its history, talk page, etc.), follow the redirect to the target page, then click on the link in the "(Redirected from ...)" notice at the top of the page. This takes you to the redirect page itself. (The URL for accessing a redirect page without following the redirect contains the query parameter redirect=no.)" (copied from Help:Redirect) —Alalch E.12:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241213121100","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241213121100-Alalch_E.-20241213101800","replies":["c-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213162500-Alalch_E.-20241213121100"]}}-->
Thanks!ProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 16:25, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241213162500","author":"ProfessorKaiFlai","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213162500-Alalch_E.-20241213121100","replies":[]}}-->
Got it ProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 16:26, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241213162600","author":"ProfessorKaiFlai","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-ProfessorKaiFlai-20241213162600-Alalch_E.-20241213101800","replies":[]}}-->
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Thanks for helping out and restructuring the article. It reads a lot cleaner now. I'd like to get your opinion, though: do you think that I should more heavily weight the reliable sources for statements in the article that can be cited with multiple sources? And what do you think of the new sources overall that I posted in the talk page? Is there any concern it could be sent back to AfD? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 11:34, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241220113400","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241220113400-Thanks_for_helping_edit_15.ai","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241220121800-GregariousMadness-20241220113400"]}}-->
You're welcome, and thank you for the correct initiative and very nice effort in recreating the article. Let's say you have three sources and three statements. Statement A is supported by refs 1, 2, and 3, statement B by 1 and 2 (3 doesn't say anything about B), and statement C by 1 and 3 (2 doesn't say anything about C). Statement 1 is reliable for the statements A, B, and C individually. What editors should do is remove sources 2 and 3 from the article entirely and cite only 1 at the end of a paragraph or at an appropriate place so that all of the preceding content is suppported. Leaving 2 and 3 in is useless for the reader. They don't make the article better or more authoritative. But if 2 was more reliable (let's say it's an article in a peer-reviewed journal) than 1 (an online news article) for B, then it should be cited instead of 1 for B only (so A is supported by 1, B by 2, and C again by 1; see WP:TSI). As few sources should be cited as possible and only the most reliable ones (but maybe not all editors would agree with me on this). The only exception to this is WP:EXCEPTIONAL: Any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources. But the vast majority of claims on Wikipedia are not exceptional claims. Such exceptional claims are very rare. —Alalch E.12:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241220121800","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241220121800-GregariousMadness-20241220113400","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241220122700-Alalch_E.-20241220121800"]}}-->
I see, that makes sense. Thanks again for your help. I'll make sure to continue improving the article with your comments in mind. Have a great day! GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 12:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241220122700","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241220122700-Alalch_E.-20241220121800","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241220123000-GregariousMadness-20241220122700"]}}-->
Additional cases when it's necessary to cite multiple sources for certain types of statements are covered in Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. There are probably a few more recommendations to cite "multiple reliable sources" (or similar wording) next to certain statements that might seem questionable or trivial in the PAG, but that's less important, and all those would be niche cases. About AfD, it's hard to predict whether the article will be nominated again, but that shouldn't concern you. Thanks for reaching out, and thanks -- you too! —Alalch E.12:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241220123000","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241220123000-GregariousMadness-20241220122700","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241226024500-Alalch_E.-20241220123000"]}}-->
Would it be okay to go through my past edits to see if any of them are supported by the new sources, and re-add them to the article? I know many of them were removed because they weren't supported but I think this new article serves as a good base to explain the popular TTS models during the time. This also serves as a backdrop for the models 15.ai used, since it explains GANs and flow-based architecture. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 02:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226024500","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241226024500-Alalch_E.-20241220123000","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241226054400-GregariousMadness-20241226024500"]}}-->
Yes, absolutely, —Alalch E.05:44, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226054400","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241226054400-GregariousMadness-20241226024500","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241226055400-Alalch_E.-20241226054400"]}}-->
Thank you! Merry Christmas as well! GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 05:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226055400","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241226055400-Alalch_E.-20241226054400","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241226055600-GregariousMadness-20241226055400"]}}-->
Merry Christmas! —Alalch E.05:56, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226055600","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241226055600-GregariousMadness-20241226055400","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241226114600-Alalch_E.-20241226055600"]}}-->
You've been so much help to me so far, I can't thank you enough. But I saw that you were recently online and I was confused by BusterD's comment in the AfD. I thought I was behaving myself better than before, so I'd also like to ask you: what can I improve on behaviorally? I'd love any specific examples where I could have behaved better in the AfD so I can learn from this. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 11:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226114600","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241226114600-Alalch_E.-20241226055600","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241226121600-GregariousMadness-20241226114600"]}}-->
You're welcome. You should reorient to other topics, topic areas and activities for a period of several months (something approaching 6 months) to show that you're not only interested in what seems to some editors to be a very narrow topic, and when you say you'll do something a certain way, you should do it broadly that way so that there's no doubt that you are sticking to your commitment and genuinely want to do so. So for example if someone tells you not do do something and you respond positively to that, but then you start feeling like there's a carveout and start doing the thing you said you wouldn't, even if a little bit, it won't matter why you think you're covered. In the eye of the person you first made the commitment to it won't look good. —Alalch E.12:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226121600","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241226121600-GregariousMadness-20241226114600","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241226121800-Alalch_E.-20241226121600"]}}-->
I see. Thank you. I'm still confused by what BusterD meant when he said that this was "directly a consequence of the many, many precipitous actions of GregariousMadness". I've been trying to ask them on their talk page, but I feel like I'm getting stonewalled. Would you have any idea what they're referring to? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 12:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226121800","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241226121800-Alalch_E.-20241226121600","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241226132600-GregariousMadness-20241226121800"]}}-->
Even though you feel like you got stonewalled, and BusterD told you he doesn't want to talk to you on his talk page anymore, you did not get stonewalled. He responded to your messages. In that conversation you essentially ignored most of what he has told you. This connects back to how you had explained that you can get hyper-focused on a single thing. In the AfD he wrote "precipitous actions". You went to his talk page to talk to him about that saying "Please, I can explain everything ..." Then in the next reply you pleaded to him: "I'd really appreciate it if you could point out exactly where I went wrong", and in a third reply you wrote "I'm asking about what exactly my "precipitous actions" were". You are now asking me about the meaning "precipitous actions". All the while, BusterD laid out how he sees your behavior in a way that to most outside observers probably sufficiently explains why he would see you as someone who has taken many, many precipitous actions. I think this is something you should think about on your own for a while. Maybe give yourself a few days. It would be a good thing if you could show that you can slow down. —Alalch E.13:26, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226132600","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241226132600-GregariousMadness-20241226121800","replies":[]}}-->
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!
Hello Alalch E., may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. Happy editing, GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 06:52, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241226065200","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241226065200-Thanks_for_helping_edit_15.ai","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for that. I looked, but couldn't find actual directions for closing a DRV as there are for pretty much all other such discussions, so I just copied code from the above DRV and modified it. Perhaps at some point XFDCLOSER could include this functionality. El Beeblerinoif you're not into the whole brevity thing22:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241228225000","author":"Beeblebrox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Beeblebrox-20241228225000-DRV","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241228230100-Beeblebrox-20241228225000"],"displayName":"El Beeblerino"}}-->
@Beeblebrox You're welcome. They're in Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. XFDcloser working for DRV sounds reasonable even if 'X review' is not 'X for discussion/deletion', agreed. —Alalch E.23:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241228230100","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241228230100-Beeblebrox-20241228225000","replies":[]}}-->
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Hi! I agreed with pretty much all of your edits on the 15.ai article, but I was confused by why the ElevenLabs quote was removed for being promotional. The quote "it became a one-stop shop for voice clones of all your favorite real-life and fictional characters." was referring to 15.ai, not ElevenLabs, so I felt like it was appropriate for the Legacy section. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 05:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231054700","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231054700-Question_about_the_ElevenLabs_quote_being_removed","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231054800-GregariousMadness-20241231054700"]}}-->
It's still an ad for ElevenLabs because it "subtly" advertises ElevenLabs' ability to do the same. —Alalch E.05:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231054800","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231054800-GregariousMadness-20241231054700","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231055100-Alalch_E.-20241231054800"]}}-->
Hmm... I see. What about the quote "[15.ai] became the go-to text-to-speech tool for anyone who wanted to create lifelike and realistic AI voices for any reason"? It doesn't refer to "your" so I feel like this one should be better? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 05:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231055100","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231055100-Alalch_E.-20241231054800","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231055200-GregariousMadness-20241231055100"]}}-->
It doesn't speak directly enough to the legacy, like the other quotes in that section do. What that quote says is basically what the article has established up to that point, except that it does it with a promotional twist, so I really think we're better off without it. —Alalch E.05:52, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231055200","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231055200-GregariousMadness-20241231055100","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231055600-Alalch_E.-20241231055200"]}}-->
I see, I guess that makes sense. Would truncating Play.Ht's quote to "breakthrough in the field of text-to-speech (TTS) and speech synthesis" be fine? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 05:56, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231055600","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231055600-Alalch_E.-20241231055200","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231055900-GregariousMadness-20241231055600"]}}-->
I think we should stick to wiki-notable entities in that section. The quote from the notable company's Speechify website, attributed to a named individual is much much better than Play.ht and Resemble AI quotes. I'd only keep the Speechify quote, honestly. —Alalch E.05:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231055900","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231055900-GregariousMadness-20241231055600","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231060200-Alalch_E.-20241231055900"]}}-->
I agree to an extent, but PlayHT is a pretty notable player in the voice AI space. They recently raised over $20M in a seed round, and even though they don't have a Wikipedia page yet, they definitely are one of the major companies working on voice AI alongside Speechify and ElevenLabs. I think including a quote from PlayHT underscores the legacy quite a bit. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 06:02, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231060200","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231060200-Alalch_E.-20241231055900","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231060400-GregariousMadness-20241231060200"]}}-->
I can live with Speechify and Play.ht, but I'd stop there with the company quotes. —Alalch E.06:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231060400","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231060400-GregariousMadness-20241231060200","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231060500-Alalch_E.-20241231060400"]}}-->
Okay, got it. I'll also argue for Resemble AI, though, because they were a big player in the open source voice AI space around the same time as 15.ai. They built Resemblyzer ([1]), which was pretty big at the time. But other than those three, I think that should be fine? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 06:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231060500","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231060500-Alalch_E.-20241231060400","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231060700-GregariousMadness-20241231060500"]}}-->
That's too much of that stuff for me. Resemble AI is barely mentioned anywhere else on Wikipedia. This could be seen as a plug. Should be avoided. —Alalch E.06:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231060700","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231060700-GregariousMadness-20241231060500","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231060900-Alalch_E.-20241231060700"]}}-->
And the same is true for PlayHT ... okay, take your pick: Resemble AI or PlayHT :) —Alalch E.06:09, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231060900","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231060900-Alalch_E.-20241231060700","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231061100-Alalch_E.-20241231060900"]}}-->
Done, I removed the Resemble AI quote. Thanks for the discussion! GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 06:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231061100","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231061100-Alalch_E.-20241231060900","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231061100-GregariousMadness-20241231061100"]}}-->
You're welcome, and thanks for reaching out. —Alalch E.06:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231061100","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231061100-GregariousMadness-20241231061100","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231061400-Alalch_E.-20241231061100"]}}-->
Also, one last question: would you say the following quote supports the removed statement about 15.ai's legacy on fan communities? "Millions who generated lines for memes, fan productions, or just to hear their favorite characters speak were part of a grand experiment—a preview of an AI future that promises extraordinary creativity alongside serious ethical quandaries." GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 06:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231061400","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231061400-Alalch_E.-20241231061100","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20241231061800-GregariousMadness-20241231061400"]}}-->
Yes, it supports the idea that there's this cultural aspect of the legacy. —Alalch E.06:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231061800","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20241231061800-GregariousMadness-20241231061400","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20241231061800-Alalch_E.-20241231061800"]}}-->
Great, I will re-add the sentence (minus the unsupported part) with the new source. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 06:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241231061800","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":16,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20241231061800-Alalch_E.-20241231061800","replies":[]}}-->
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How can I start the discussion? Should I make it on the 15.ai talk page, or would you prefer to discuss it here? I can copy it over if you feel that's more appropriate.
I personally believe that an "In fandom culture" is relevant to the article because it was fundamentally intertwined with fan communities both in its development and impact. The platform's development was directly enabled by fan-created datasets and it subsequently transformed how these communities created content. This was particularly notable in the My Little Pony, Team Fortress 2, Portal, and SpongeBob SquarePants communities, so I believe talking about the specific content that was created as a result of 15.ai is a good thing to have and improves the article per WP:VNOT. It frames the application as a cultural phenomenon that transformed online fan communities, and not just a technological innovation. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 20:54, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250102205400","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20250102205400-Question_about_the_most_recent_edit","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20250102205900-GregariousMadness-20250102205400"]}}-->
I'll respond on the article's talk page. Basically, this is tied to the discussion which I had already started about repetition. I'll make a new comment there shortly. —Alalch E.20:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250102205900","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20250102205900-GregariousMadness-20250102205400","replies":["c-GregariousMadness-20250102214300-Alalch_E.-20250102205900"]}}-->
Got it, thank you. I saw that you were reviewing some of the articles I was creating, so I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at Procesi bundle, which I just created. It might be a bit too technical for the general audience right now, but I'm not really sure how I can make a topic as abstruse as this more accessible to the layman—any tips would be appreciated! GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 21:43, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250102214300","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20250102214300-Alalch_E.-20250102205900","replies":["c-Alalch_E.-20250102214700-GregariousMadness-20250102214300"]}}-->
I'll see if I'm able to do that. You can also ask for feedback on a WikiProject's talk page where there'll be editors with backgrounds in the relevant area. —Alalch E.21:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250102214700","author":"Alalch E.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alalch_E.-20250102214700-GregariousMadness-20250102214300","replies":[]}}-->
The Barnstar of Diligence
I'm not sure if this is the correct barnstar for this, but thank you for being patient with me and helping me become a better editor on Wikipedia. Your feedback means a lot to me. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 22:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250102220600","author":"GregariousMadness","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GregariousMadness-20250102220600-Question_about_the_most_recent_edit","replies":[]}}-->
Strategi Solo vs Squad di Free Fire: Cara Menang Mudah!
