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Cancelled games section

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Rather than a revert war, can we please talk about the 'cancelled games' section of the template? I'm of the opinion that a single game doesn't make a category, and that the template looks a lot neater with just the two lines. The note next to meantime makes it perfectly clear that the game was cancelled. Thoughts? Euchrid (talk) 00:06, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-19T00:06:00.000Z","author":"Euchrid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Euchrid-2012-07-19T00:06:00.000Z-Cancelled_games_section","replies":["c-Izno-2012-07-19T00:51:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-19T00:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

I am obviously in agreement, for precisely those reasons. To be perfectly honest, of course, I would merge the cancelled article into the series article or into whichever of the two main game articles would better receive it. But that's just me. --Izno Repeat (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-19T00:51:00.000Z","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Izno-2012-07-19T00:51:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-19T00:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-Euchrid-2012-07-19T04:27:00.000Z-Izno-2012-07-19T00:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Along with User:Niemti, I think that that's pretty comprehensive consensus on the matter. As far as merging Meantime, I don't have a strong opinion either way. I'm leaning towards favouring having it as its own article, if only because there's enough material there that if it were adedd to Wasteland (video game) it would be almost half the article. That said, the Meantime article is pretty poorly sourced, so perhaps not all of the content would remain. Euchrid (talk) 04:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-19T04:27:00.000Z","author":"Euchrid","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Euchrid-2012-07-19T04:27:00.000Z-Izno-2012-07-19T00:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-21T16:05:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-19T04:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes creating a new section for only a single game will result in a clutter. But Wasteland and fallout series are quiet similar and are spiritually linked to each other. That's why I tried to create a wasteland template that was similar to fallout template. Also the note next to Meantime does not mention whether it is a cancelled game or a movie or another form of media. It only states it is cancelled. How will someone know what type of media it is? One last thing, after merging meantime with Fountain of Dreams and Fallout series the section containing these topics was renamed spin-off games. Fountain of dreams and fallout are not part of the wasteland series they are only related to it in aspects of gameplay. The article of fountain of dreams and fallout clearly states this. So they cannot be called spin offs. Therefore my opinion is that name of the section should be kept as 'Related' and not 'Spin-off games'. Meantime should be kept in this section with Fountain of Dreams and Fallout Series rather than with Wasteland 1 and 2. --MegaCyanide666 (talk) 16:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-21T16:05:00.000Z","author":"MegaCyanide666","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-21T16:05:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-19T04:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Euchrid-2012-07-22T22:39:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-21T16:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think that the 'cancelled game' section works in the Fallout template because there are so many of them - if you were to integrate the cancellend and successfully released games into a single section, a full half of them would be marked as cancelled. Wasteland is a different case, because there's just the once cancelled game.

As far as the rest of it goes, I have to say that I don't love having 'Fallout series' in there, it implies that there's a direct connection, rather than it simply being inspired by Wasteland. It's kind of like if the GTA template listed all the driving/crime games that came after it. Fountain of Dreams works, though, because it used a lot of the same code and looks and plays in a near identical manner. Euchrid (talk) 22:39, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-22T22:39:00.000Z","author":"Euchrid","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Euchrid-2012-07-22T22:39:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-21T16:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Niemti-2012-07-23T04:12:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-22T22:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Not quite just inspired, they did it as Fallout (at first as "Vault 13: A GURPS Post-Nuclear Adevnture") only because they had lost all the Wasteland trademarks to EA. The original project was simply "GURPS: Wasteland". --Niemti (talk) 04:12, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T04:12:00.000Z","author":"Niemti","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Niemti-2012-07-23T04:12:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-22T22:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Euchrid-2012-07-23T04:26:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-23T04:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

I stand corrected, I didn't know that. Euchrid (talk) 04:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T04:26:00.000Z","author":"Euchrid","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Euchrid-2012-07-23T04:26:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-23T04:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T09:28:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-23T04:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

Fallout 1 and 2 are not just inspired by Wasteland they are directly inspired by it. What I mean that they are so similar that Fallout 1 and 2 can be called spiritual successors of Wasteland just like Fountain Of Dreams. Originally Fallout was going to be a game of Wasteland series but since Electronic Arts refused to give the rights to Interplay Studios they completely changed the storyline and the name of the game although if you notice the gameplay is mostly similar to Wasteland the only difference being that combat in fallout is in real time. Also fallout 2 makes several refrences to Wasteland and so does the other games of the series. There is a faction called Desert Rangers in Fallout 2 , the same name is of the player party in Wasteland. Therefore, Fallout series is directly related to it and not just inspired by it as if Interplay would have acquired the rights to Wasteland, Fallout would instead have been Wasteland 2 or a spin-off game of the series. There's no problem in it being included in Wasteland series. --MegaCyanide666 (talk) 09:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T09:28:00.000Z","author":"MegaCyanide666","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T09:28:00.000Z-Euchrid-2012-07-23T04:26:00.000Z","replies":["c-Niemti-2012-07-23T10:49:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T09:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

The gameplay in Fallout 1 and 2 was actually completely different than in Wasteland. Also, the combat was turn-based (not "in real time", which was only introduced optionally in Fallout Tactics). The combat in Wasteland was also turn-based, but entirely different too. I think you've never seen neither the original Fallout games nor Wasteland. --Niemti (talk) 10:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T10:49:00.000Z","author":"Niemti","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Niemti-2012-07-23T10:49:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T09:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:04:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-23T10:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

You are wrong, in fallout and wasteland you cant move by using up. down, right and left button. You have to instead click on a location to go there. Now that's one similarity. The combat system of both games is turn based although in fallout it is an active time combat ie., an enemy will be attacking while you're combat menu screen is up but in wasteland the enemies will wait for their turn after you're turn is over. That's now a minor similarity of turn based combat system. In both games you can choose how to talk with people and you're choices and morality affect your surroundings greatly. And one of the most major remnants of Wasteland in Fallout 1 which probably none of you have paid attention to is that when you kill a child the society declares you an outlaw, hefty bounty is given on your head, civilians and guards attack you on sight and the most important one bounty hunters can come after you anywhere to kill you. The gameplay is not completely different but rather modified along with time because Interplay thought a game like Wasteland would not be successful during the time fallout was being made. Also do not forget Fallout was actually going to be a sequel or spin-off to Wasteland. Do not remove Fallout series from the template. --MegaCyanide666 (talk) 16:04, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T16:04:00.000Z","author":"MegaCyanide666","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:04:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-23T10:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Niemti-2012-07-23T16:17:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sigh. Wasteland had no point and click movement at all, and the combat looked like that: [1] as compared to that: [2]. Anyway that doesn't matter. --Niemti (talk) 16:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T16:17:00.000Z","author":"Niemti","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Niemti-2012-07-23T16:17:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:41:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-23T16:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes that is exactly what I wanted to say but could'nt find words for it although maybe you didn't understand but I only said that they both have turn-based combat gameplay. Oh and you're right about the movement part sorry but I'm right about everything else. --MegaCyanide666 (talk) 16:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T16:41:00.000Z","author":"MegaCyanide666","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:41:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-23T16:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Niemti-2012-07-23T18:56:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

No, you said "the only difference being that combat in fallout is in real time" (everything was completely different). Now, seriously. You're pretending to be some kind of an expert on the subject while you don't know anything (the stuff about the homage references in Fallout 2 and the Desert Rangers was just a rephrasing of what I had written in Wasteland (video game)#Legacy few months ago) and then you refuse to acknowledge it or even to drop the subject right there, you're edit warring with everyone here, you're calling people names (and by people I mean me, and I did take it personally, but decided to give you one more chance). Maybe you should just stop. --Niemti (talk) 18:56, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T18:56:00.000Z","author":"Niemti","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Niemti-2012-07-23T18:56:00.000Z-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-23T16:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

This is a ridiculous amount of drama for a template. It's not even an article, just a template. I'm taking this page off my watchlist and moving on to places that are worth the effort. Euchrid (talk) 21:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-23T21:31:00.000Z","author":"Euchrid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Euchrid-2012-07-23T21:31:00.000Z-Cancelled_games_section","replies":[]}}-->

What is going on over here? You people don't even know how to respect guidelines of a talk page. Who the hell gave you those stars you have on your profiles? You don't deserve it because you're totally senseless. If you think this template is a waste of time then think and just go away from here but I'm going to stick by it and maintain it. It's people like us who keep wikipedia clean unlike you and Niemti who just don't want to separate a cancelled game from the published ones just because it's a single game and creates clutter. You don't deserve to be an editor. Oh Niemti, I did play Fallout 1 and 2 and Wasteland. --MegaCyanide666 (talk) 16:57 , 26 July 2012 (UTC)

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Meantime

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I can look for some more sources in old magazines, but I think there should be some retrospective features about it soon.

Oh, and there are external links that might be used, I guess? For example, Chris Taylor wrote this in 1995:[3] --Niemti (talk) 07:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-19T07:37:00.000Z","author":"Niemti","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Niemti-2012-07-19T07:37:00.000Z-Meantime","replies":["c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-24T16:40:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-19T07:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

A reference for the tribute album to Meantime - MeanTime EP by 8 Bit Weapon has been added. --MegaCyanide666 (talk) 16:40, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-24T16:40:00.000Z","author":"MegaCyanide666","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MegaCyanide666-2012-07-24T16:40:00.000Z-Niemti-2012-07-19T07:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->