Template talk:Sindhi tribes

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Irrelevant tribes

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@Sir Calculus what you say about this? Sutyarashi (talk) 15:19, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710151900","author":"Sutyarashi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sutyarashi-20230710151900-Irrelevant_tribes","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230710160100-Sutyarashi-20230710151900","c-Sir_Calculus-20230711151300-Sutyarashi-20230710151900"]}}-->

About what? Sir Calculus (talk) 16:01, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710160100","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230710160100-Sutyarashi-20230710151900","replies":["c-Sutyarashi-20230710180000-Sir_Calculus-20230710160100"]}}-->

You need to provide references on all these tribes (on their main article) added on template for being Sindhi; otherwise I'd remove unverified ones. Sutyarashi (talk) 18:00, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710180000","author":"Sutyarashi","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sutyarashi-20230710180000-Sir_Calculus-20230710160100","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230710182200-Sutyarashi-20230710180000"]}}-->

So basically fix all those articles? :(

And I'm assuming you won't allow raj books, right?

I'm going to fix them one by one. Let's start with Arain. Sir Calculus (talk) 18:22, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710182200","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230710182200-Sutyarashi-20230710180000","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230710184900-Sir_Calculus-20230710182200"]}}-->

Okay, I've fixed Arain in the list of tribes. But can't fix it in the Arain article since it's extended protected. Here's the ref, it's not from any raj book & makes multiple mentions of sindhi arains, the specific page I've quoted in the reference below is from pg 208, and at page 163, the book also makes mention of a nominal Sindhi Arain diaspora population too, in USA & Canada.^[1] Sir Calculus (talk) 18:49, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710184900","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230710184900-Sir_Calculus-20230710182200","replies":["c-Sutyarashi-20230710185600-Sir_Calculus-20230710184900"]}}-->

Not reliable at all, because the publisher CreateSpace is a self-publishing company (see WP:SELFPUBLISH) which means people can publish their work through them by paying money. Find any better source. Sutyarashi (talk) 18:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710185600","author":"Sutyarashi","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Sutyarashi-20230710185600-Sir_Calculus-20230710184900","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230710205600-Sutyarashi-20230710185600"]}}-->

@Sutyarashi In the 13th chapter, he mentioned the references he used in his book, can I share them?

Also how about this one? ^[2] Sir Calculus (talk) 20:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230710205600","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230710205600-Sutyarashi-20230710185600","replies":["c-Sutyarashi-20230711073000-Sir_Calculus-20230710205600"]}}-->

Dawn seems a better source, though still not an academic one. Sutyarashi (talk) 07:30, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230711073000","author":"Sutyarashi","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Sutyarashi-20230711073000-Sir_Calculus-20230710205600","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230711094000-Sutyarashi-20230711073000"]}}-->

In Zardari or Sanjrani & many others as well, such articles are used. So can't we use it here?

Anyways, I found some others, let me know.

• This book is co-authored by Shams Jilani, a respected historian, so it is reliable. The best thing about it? The references for each page are mentioned below on the same page. The chapter we're concerned with is the first chapter. ^[3]
• This is a journal, mainly focused on Sindhi Nationalism, It makes mention of Juno Arain, a Sindhi nationalist who is responsible for the Black Friday Massacre, I don't think this reference is appropriate. But since we have very few English languages sources, I've put it here & it's published by Brill, so it is reliable. ^[4]
• This one is a pdf by the Arain Council Canada, it's a good source as well. ^[5]
• This one is the best reference compared to others in my opinion. Together with Arain history it includes the Arain surnames which also has some Sindhi Arain surnames and the best part here is a copy of the Urdu manuscript which also includes a family tree and mention of Sindh as well. ^[6]
• This is a great reference as well, writes about the Sindh Arain Organizations. ^[7]
• This is a pdf of a list of dehs, it is an evidence of their long time settlement in Sindh. It mentions the deh called Arain, in Kandhkot, Sindh. ^[8]
• This is a very weak reference, it's about the Arain Association based in Gambat, Sindh. Though weak, I have included it because there aren't many English language sources. ^[9]

Let me know what you think. Sir Calculus (talk) 09:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230711094000","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230711094000-Sutyarashi-20230711073000","replies":["c-Sutyarashi-20230711124900-Sir_Calculus-20230711094000"]}}-->

I couldn't find any information about Shams Jilani, so can't say whether he is a respected author or not. Anyways, if the publisher is not Amazon again (which again makes it self-published) the book seems reliable enough to be used. The use of fourth reference, if it makes reference only to an individual, is not appropriate for whole community. As for rest, you should avoid online blogs and community websites, though the Express Tribune reference is reliable. Sutyarashi (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230711124900","author":"Sutyarashi","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Sutyarashi-20230711124900-Sir_Calculus-20230711094000","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230711132400-Sutyarashi-20230711124900"]}}-->

Here you can know about Shams more: [1]

And as a final confirmation, can I add the Express Tribune reference for Arain? Sir Calculus (talk) 13:24, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230711132400","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230711132400-Sutyarashi-20230711124900","replies":[]}}-->

@Sutyarashi

If you agree with the Arain source, here are two references for Kolachi:

1) This. ^[10]

2) And this. ^[11]

I think the first reference supports the second one nicely. Let me know what you think. Sir Calculus (talk) 15:13, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230711151300","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230711151300-Sutyarashi-20230710151900","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230712113200-Sir_Calculus-20230711151300"]}}-->

@Sutyarashi. Hi, can you add back Daudpotra to that template as that is a Sindhi tribe. I assume you mistakenly removed it. Sir Calculus (talk) 11:32, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230712113200","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230712113200-Sir_Calculus-20230711151300","replies":["c-Sutyarashi-20230712113400-Sir_Calculus-20230712113200"]}}-->

@Sir Calculus ok. I will re-add Arain too. Sutyarashi (talk) 11:34, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230712113400","author":"Sutyarashi","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sutyarashi-20230712113400-Sir_Calculus-20230712113200","replies":["c-Sir_Calculus-20230712124400-Sutyarashi-20230712113400"]}}-->

Thank you brother. Sir Calculus (talk) 12:44, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230712124400","author":"Sir Calculus","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Sir_Calculus-20230712124400-Sutyarashi-20230712113400","replies":[]}}-->

1. Ahmed, Dr. Mukhtar (18 April 2016). The Arains: A Historical Perspective. pp. 13, 15–16, 163, 208. ISBN 978-1-5327-8117-9. ...4) Like so many other ethnic groups, the Arains are divided into several groups, like the Jalindheri Arains, SarSaywal Arains, Ghaggar (Multani) Arains, Sindhi Arains...
2. "Tribes and Castes". ..Arain have their contribution in the field of agriculture. The tribe, mostly settled in the Punjab and Sindh, claim their ancestors migrated to Sindh as a part of Muhammad Bin Qasim army. Their claim is belied by their number and traditional profession. They constitute one of the four major tribes of the Punjab, other three being Gujjar, Rajput and Jat. Arains are the finest farmers in the Punjab and Sindh..
3. Asad, Dr. Mohammad Rehan; Jilani, Shams (21 April 2017). The Arain Diaspora. The Arain/Rain is an agrarian tribe mainly settled in Punjab and parts of Sindh (now Pakistan)..
4. Levesque, Julien (12 November 2021). "Beyond Success or Failure: Sindhi Nationalism and the Social Construction of the "Idea of Sindh"". Journal of Sindhi Studies. Brill.
5. https://www.araincouncilcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Arain-Book.pdf
6. "Arain History". Arain Council Canada.
7. "Eid Milan Party: Sindh Arain organisations merge". The Express Tribune. ..Various organisations of the Arain community of Sindh have decided to work jointly under the banner of..
8. https://sindhzameen.gos.pk/pdf/listofdeh.pdf
9. "All Pakistan Arain Association, Gambat, Sindh".
10. Allana, Ghulam Ali (2002). The Origin and Growth of Sindhi Language. Institute of Sindhology. p. 231. ..Korai, Kolachi, Khokhara, Machi, Nawra, Naicha and Harha settled there for the last many centuries. All these races speak Sindhi as their mother tongue..
11. Sind Quarterly. Vol. 19. Mazhar Yousuf. 1991. ..Ms. Aisha Kolachi is the President of the Sindhi Women's Organization, Badin and a social worker..