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Hey Hanzo, I've made a couple of changes as you have probably already noticed. I've removed the Chechen coat of arms and replaced it with the Ichkerian flag (to make it more clear, as the Ichkerian key leaders are also represented by this flag) and I've added some names I believe should be listed. I hope yu agree since you appear to be the only one editing this template. Let me know. ForrestSjap07:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-05-26T07:06:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-05-26T07:06:00.000Z-Untitled","replies":["c-ForrestSjap-2007-05-26T08:33:00.000Z-ForrestSjap-2007-05-26T07:06:00.000Z"]}}-->
Dear hanzo, it appears you are very touchy about this template. If you disagree with my edits, feel free to discuss them with me. I've already invited you to do so above, but don't undo them without explaining why. If you insist on keeping the coat of arms, whatever, I'll let you have your way, but the names I added are relevant to the conflict and you should not have removed them without giving a proper explanation. Apart from your treasured coat of arms, I will restore my edits, next time you undo them, leave a message or the process will be repeated. ForrestSjap08:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-05-26T08:33:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-05-26T08:33:00.000Z-ForrestSjap-2007-05-26T07:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The Ichkerian Coat of Arms has been removed, I will replace it with the flag for the moment but I'm trying to obtain permission to use another Coat of Arms. ForrestSjap16:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-11T16:00:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-11T16:00:00.000Z-Untitled","replies":[]}}-->
I've added some key leaders, I have also added a new coat of arms. I hope everyone agrees.ForrestSjap09:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-17T09:13:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-17T09:13:00.000Z-Untitled","replies":[]}}-->
You have once again reverted some relevant edits, Hanzo. Although every single name I added to the list is very relevant to either one of the Chechen Wars, you have removed almost all of them, and the only excuse you had was that you thought only the names of the presidents should remain on the list, while at the same time you felt it necessary to keep Basayev and the Amirs of the Islamic Battalion listed, in fact, it was you who added Khattab. Not very consistent. Anyway, I will repair at least some of my edits, if you insist on keeping the list short, then I will add only those names that are relevant to the conflict today and I will also explain why I consider them to be relevant. Three names I will put back on the list; for the pro-Moscow Chechens; Yamadayev and Kakiev, and for the separatists; Abdullaev. As I'm sure you are well aware, the Pro-Moscow Chechens are divided into three camps, the militia's headed by Kadyrov, Yamadayev and Kakiev. These three warlords and their private armies are currently the three main forces struggling for overall military authority in the region, therefore I feel they must be listed. Abdullaev I will also put back in the list. I know the article is a bit stubby at the moment but I will do something about this as soon as I have more time on my hands. As you know Abdullaev is the current Vice-President of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, that means that if Umarov were to get killed, he will automatically bacome President. Not a name we should forget to mention I think. If you still disagree, feel free to discuss with me here in the discussion section (that's what it's made for), those edit summaries are hardly a substitute. Also please try to master the English language, in one of your edit summaries I found the following text "befor ethis gets ridicalously long... basayev was the man of basayev really". I'm not really sure what to make of this. That will be all for now. I hope we can finally agree. ForrestSjap18:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-21T18:44:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T18:44:00.000Z-Untitled","replies":["c-HanzoHattori-2007-06-21T19:15:00.000Z-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T18:44:00.000Z","c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T19:49:00.000Z-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T18:44:00.000Z"]}}-->
Do you want to add vice-presidents of Putin and Kadyrov, too? Who else, their prime-ministers? Ministers of defense and security? All of them? Leaders Dagestanis and Ingush rebels? Barayevs and their kin, under Ichkerian flag? Come on. If you want, make a list article or something. Islamic volunteers were always the separate force, and actually only Khattab was really famous (Abu al-Walid somewhat - these two next I don't even recognise).
Kadyrov won the struggle for power, there's no direct confrontation. When police shot it out with Zapad men in Grozny yesterday it was on a very low level, because they felt like this not because they were ordered to by Ramzan and Kakiyev. --HanzoHattori19:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-21T19:15:00.000Z","author":"HanzoHattori","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-HanzoHattori-2007-06-21T19:15:00.000Z-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T18:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
At any rate I´m glad you've finally decided to discuss it with me on this page. Of course I do not want to list every single person involved in the conflict, only the relevant ones. The name of the section in question is 'key leaders', and whether you like it or not, Barayev and the likes of him have played a key role in the conflict. Anyway, I have left them out because you want to keep the list short, so let´s not argue about that. Supyan is relevant because he will succeed Umarov in the (not unlikely) case of the latter´s death (as opposed to Putin´s vice-president/prime-minister etc.). And the statement that Kadyrov has won the struggle for power is quite bold. Neither Kakiev nor Yamadayev are subordinate to Kadyrov and they even exert control over some territory. Although it does not come to violent confrontations frequently (occasionally they still clash[1]), they are still forces to be reckoned with. ForrestSjap19:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-21T19:49:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T19:49:00.000Z-ForrestSjap-2007-06-21T18:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Oh, did you see Ramzan's presidential inauguration? It's all over. Putin fully bets on Kadyrov clan and these two can't do anything about it. If they try playing political opposition, they'll end like Alkhanov's or before this Gantamirov's teams (first sidetracked then exiled). As for Gorets, it was surrendered, disarmed and its leader tracked down in Moscow and shot. So much for an armed opposition. --HanzoHattori20:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-21T20:35:00.000Z","author":"HanzoHattori","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HanzoHattori-2007-06-21T20:35:00.000Z-Untitled","replies":["c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-22T06:56:00.000Z-HanzoHattori-2007-06-21T20:35:00.000Z"]}}-->
You are stubborn and ignorant. I will not go into a revertwar with you so you can keep your template, do with it as you please. ForrestSjap06:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-06-22T06:56:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2007-06-22T06:56:00.000Z-HanzoHattori-2007-06-21T20:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
He died retired and from non-war related causes (health). Most of the historical figures are dead now, you know? --HanzoHattori16:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-16T16:22:00.000Z","author":"HanzoHattori","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HanzoHattori-2007-08-16T16:22:00.000Z-Yeltsin","replies":[]}}-->
Oh, or maybe I'm "ignorant" again. --HanzoHattori16:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-16T16:24:00.000Z","author":"HanzoHattori","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HanzoHattori-2007-08-16T16:24:00.000Z-Yeltsin","replies":["c-Zscout370-2007-08-16T19:03:00.000Z-HanzoHattori-2007-08-16T16:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
I wasn't sure if it was debated before or how those templates works, but we we marked every key player who died with a cross, I figure mind as well be consistent and mark his name with a cross. User:Zscout370(Return Fire)19:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-16T19:03:00.000Z","author":"Zscout370","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Zscout370-2007-08-16T19:03:00.000Z-HanzoHattori-2007-08-16T16:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-HanzoHattori-2007-08-17T14:12:00.000Z-Zscout370-2007-08-16T19:03:00.000Z"],"displayName":"User:Zscout370"}}-->
The cross mark redirects to killed in action. Yeltin wasn't KIA, unless by "action" one undrestands "drinking". Also: he was retired for years. --HanzoHattori14:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-17T14:12:00.000Z","author":"HanzoHattori","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-HanzoHattori-2007-08-17T14:12:00.000Z-Zscout370-2007-08-16T19:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Zscout370-2007-08-17T19:28:00.000Z-HanzoHattori-2007-08-17T14:12:00.000Z"]}}-->
Ah, I see your point. I'll revert myself now. User:Zscout370(Return Fire)19:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-17T19:28:00.000Z","author":"Zscout370","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Zscout370-2007-08-17T19:28:00.000Z-HanzoHattori-2007-08-17T14:12:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Zscout370"}}-->
When exactly was the current pro-moscow flag of Chechnya installed? Akhmad Kadyrov is listed under the new flag, even though he might have died before it was introduced? (flag was introduced the same year as his death). - PietervHuis 01:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
The flag was introduced by Akhmad Kadyrov[2].ForrestSjap (talk) 10:25, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-08T10:25:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2008-01-08T10:25:00.000Z-Appropriate_flags?","replies":[]}}-->
Chechen volunteers and mercenaries have participated in numerous conflicts, this does not mean every one of them should be listed in the template dealing with the Chechen-Russian conflict. The Kodori crisis is primarily part of the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict, that is where it should be listed. ForrestSjap (talk) 20:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-01T20:21:00.000Z","author":"ForrestSjap","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ForrestSjap-2008-02-01T20:21:00.000Z-Kodori_crisis","replies":[]}}-->
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