Template talk:Campaignbox Kurdish separatism in Iran

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Move war

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This page has been move-warred by User:HistorNE and User:Greyshark09 in August 2013. I have moved it to its pre-August title and protected it from further moves. Please use WP:RM to suggest a new title and form consensus. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:16, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-08-09T16:16:00.000Z","author":"JHunterJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JHunterJ-2013-08-09T16:16:00.000Z-Move_war","replies":["c-Greyshark09-2013-08-29T18:40:00.000Z-JHunterJ-2013-08-09T16:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Unfortunately the move war continues, despite the fact that HistorNE failed to get consensus to rename the article, and refuses do engage in dialogue, insisting upon a single view of this conflict - claiming KDPI strives for autonomy rather than independence. It is however obvious that KDPI has changed policies since 1996 - refraining from violent struggle since (it was almost completely destroyed by Iranian security forces via imprisonment and assassinations), and in any case autonomy demand it is still carrying is also a sort of separatism.Greyshark09 (talk) 18:40, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-08-29T18:40:00.000Z","author":"Greyshark09","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Greyshark09-2013-08-29T18:40:00.000Z-JHunterJ-2013-08-09T16:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Greyshark is playing dirty games here because he refused to engage in dialogue and insists upon false interpretations. It should be noted that administrator voted against name changing after I completely rewrote article, and now he's avoiding discussion again and force his POV version. I'm repeating table from Talk:Kurdish separatism in Iran#Table:

Event	Separatism?	Quote
Simko Shikak revolt	Disputed	— "Although elements of nationalism were present in this movement, these were hardly articulate enough to justify a claim that recognition of Kurdish identity was a major issue in Simko's movement. (...) Simko's uprising was typical: a tribal chief with the privilege of official recognition, who used it to gain personal power at a time when the government was vulnerable. He had a combination of personal and national grievances, and his aim was to establish an independent state: nationalist in so far as such a state would nominally be a Kurdish state. However, Simko's uprising was based on tribal support and power, and had to rely heavily on conventional tribal motives. Fighting for the sake of 'Kurdish identity' was not strong enough as a motive."[1] — "An opportunistic chieftain fluctuating between Russian and Turkish support, Esma'il Aqa Shakak ("Simko"), led a series of raids and rebellions in 1919-26. Despite his self-centered ambitions and only vague allusions to a united Kurdistan, Kurdish ethnicists today revere Simko as a hero of independence."[2]
1926 Shikak revolt
1926 Kurdistan Province revolt	No	— "Although unrelated to Simko's action in Azerbaijan in 1926, a more important revolt occurred farther south in the Kordestan province. (...) tribal fighting."[3] — "Most of these revolts were among the tribes of the Zagros (...) with the reappearance of Salar al-Dawlah — the last claimant to the Qajar throne — in Kurdistan in the spring of 1926, a series of scattered and disorganized disturbances broke out in the region (...)"[4]
Iran crisis of 1946	Yes	—"In the autumn of 1324 Š./1945 declared communist groups had launched separatist movements in the provinces of Azerbaijan and Kurdistan, with the support of Soviet troops."[5] — "Although imbued with Kurdish pride, he [Mohammad Qazi] did not espouse Kurdish separatist ideologies."[6]
1967 Kurdish revolt in Iran	No	— "Significantly, the KDPI and Komala have never advocated a separate Kurdish state or greater Kurdistan, as did the PKK in its early years."[7] — "...these Kurdish Democrats raised the slogan "Democracy for Iran, Autonomy for Kurdistan," and called for an armed struggle to establish a federal republic modeled after that of Yugoslavia on the grounds that Iran, like Yugoslavia, contained many diverse nations."[8] — "...Qassemlou, was quoted by TASS as saying that 'the Kurds are not separatists. We are fighting for autonomy within the framework of democratic Iran, within the framework of its territorial integrity'."[9] — "In spite of the official hostility of the government, there are strong ties between the Kurds and the Persians. The Kurdish language is related to Farsi, and the Kurds share much of their history with the rest of Iran. This may explain at least partly why Kurdish leaders in Iran do not want a separate Kurdish state."[10]
1979 Kurdish rebellion in Iran
KDPI insurgency (1989–96)
Iran–PJAK conflict	Yes	Numerous

Refs

1. Kreyenbroek, Philip G.; Sperl, Stefan (1992). Kurds: A Contemporary Overview. London; New York: Routledge. p. 138-139. ISBN 9780415072656
2. Elling, Rasmus Christian (2013). Minorities in Iran: Nationalism and Ethnicity after Khomeini. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 9780230115842
3. Arfa, Hassan (1966). Kurds: An Historical and Political Study. London: Oxford University Press. p. 64-70.
4. Bayat, Kaveh: Chapter 12: Reza Shah and the Tribes in Cronin, Stephanie (2003). Making of Modern Iran: State and Society Under Riza Shah, 1921-1941, London & New York: Routledge, p. 224-247. ISBN 9780203423141
5. Zabih, Sepehr (December 15, 1992). Communism ii.. in Encyclopædia Iranica. New York: Columbia University
6. Żiāʾi, Noṣrat-Allāh (July 15, 2009). Qazi, Mohammad. in Encyclopædia Iranica. New York: Columbia University
7. Romano, David (2006). The Kurdish Nationalist Movement. Cambridge University Press, p. 240, ISBN 9780521850414
8. Abrahamian, Ervand (1982). Iran Between Two Revolutions. Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press. p. 453. ISBN 9780691053424
9. Yodfat, Aryeh (1984). Soviet Union and revolutionary Iran. New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 9780312749101
10. Kreyenbroek, Philip G.; Sperl, Stefan (1992). Kurds: A Contemporary Overview. London; New York: Routledge. p. 141. ISBN 9780415072656

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Despite sources clearly disagree that specific conflicts are "separatism", Greyshark09 continues to force his POV. --HistorNE (talk) 19:18, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-08-29T19:18:00.000Z","author":"HistorNE","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HistorNE-2013-08-29T19:18:00.000Z-Move_war","replies":[]}}-->

KDPI ideology is widely referred as separatist, some however dispute whether they strive for complete Kurdish independence or just autonomous entity (both are kinds of separatism). KDPI was briefly attempting to brand itself as "non-separatist" in 1979 right after the Islamic revolution (see "The Kurds And the State: Evolving National Identity in Iraq, Turkey, And Iran" quote - "despite its criticisms of the regime, in its early postrevolutionaly public discourses the KDPI called itself an authentically national and Iranian party" p.144-5 [1]), but discourse in relations with the Islamic State and the ensuing KDPI rebellion returned it to an ethnic-nationalist struggle for separate Kurdish identity - their "nationalist project" (see p.145 "Instead of creating a cohesive Kurdish nationalist movement, some Kurdish leaders such as Husayni's brother Shaykh Jalal accepted Iraqi military assistance and formed a Sunni militia opposed to the Iranian government and Kurdish nationalist parties. Qasimlu differentiated his real Kurdish nationalist party from 'traitors' within the KDPI. Others, such as the prominent Ghani Boulorian, tried to negotiate with the central government. After the revolution some Shi'a Kurds from Ilam, Kermanshah and West Azerbaijan turned away from Kurdish nationalists and towards non-Kurdish Shi'a communities. Sunni Kurdish leftists continued to direct the nationalist project in their enclave in Kurdistan Province, having marginal influence over Shi'a Kurds in other regions."

[2]). I have no problem to rename this template to "Campaignbox Kurdish-Iranian conflict" (one of the initially proposed names), but "Kurdish separatism in Iran" is more common; i welcome other possibilities as well, but we should keep focus on what this article is about.Greyshark09 (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-08-31T19:11:00.000Z","author":"Greyshark09","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Greyshark09-2013-08-31T19:11:00.000Z-Move_war","replies":["c-HistorNE-2013-09-01T12:47:00.000Z-Greyshark09-2013-08-31T19:11:00.000Z","c-Greyshark09-2017-06-04T06:39:00.000Z-Greyshark09-2013-08-31T19:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

It's better to have both articles and templates. You spent time for making article about general conflict, and I spent time for making one about separatism. These are two different themes. --HistorNE (talk) 12:47, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-09-01T12:47:00.000Z","author":"HistorNE","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-HistorNE-2013-09-01T12:47:00.000Z-Greyshark09-2013-08-31T19:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Greyshark09-2013-09-15T14:39:00.000Z-HistorNE-2013-09-01T12:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

It is a very much disputed forced split, remerger discussed at templates for discussion.Greyshark09 (talk) 14:39, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-09-15T14:39:00.000Z","author":"Greyshark09","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Greyshark09-2013-09-15T14:39:00.000Z-HistorNE-2013-09-01T12:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-HistorNE-2013-10-02T20:05:00.000Z-Greyshark09-2013-09-15T14:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Remerger was proposed under some neutral name as "Kurdish conflict(s) in Iran" or "Kurdish–Iranian conflict", not under biased title "separatism". Until better name is accepted, all events irrelevant to separatism will be excluded from template. --HistorNE (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-02T20:05:00.000Z","author":"HistorNE","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-HistorNE-2013-10-02T20:05:00.000Z-Greyshark09-2013-09-15T14:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Comment - user:HistorNE was permanently blocked from editing Wikipedia, identified as a sockmaster.GreyShark (dibra) 06:39, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-06-04T06:39:00.000Z","author":"Greyshark09","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Greyshark09-2017-06-04T06:39:00.000Z-Greyshark09-2013-08-31T19:11:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"GreyShark"}}-->