Template talk:Arbëreshë settlements

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Pope Clement XI, Gramsci, Sabato can't be considered notable "Arbereshe people"

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Pope Clement XI was an Italian of Albanian descent but he was not an Arbereshe. --Prodebugger (talk) 11:28, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T11:28:00.000Z","author":"Prodebugger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:28:00.000Z-Pope_Clement_XI,_Gramsci,_Sabato_can't_be_considered_notable_\"Arbereshe_people\"","replies":["c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:55:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:28:00.000Z","c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:44:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Pope Clement XI. Albani family of Albanian origins from which descended Pope Clement XI never established in an Arbereshe community in Italy. His mother was Elena Mosca, descended from an Italian family from Bergamo, Lombardy. She was not of Albanian or Arbereshe descent. Ernesto Sabato's father was an Italian from Fuscaldo (Calabria), Fuscaldo is not an Arbereshe community. Only Sabato's mother is probably of Arbereshe descent. Antonio Gramsci was of Albanian (or Arbereshe, not so clear) descent by his paternal line only. Gramsci's mother, Giuseppina Marcias, was italian (Sardinian family) and Gramsci never lived in an Arbereshe community and he grew up in Sardinia, an Italian island where never existed Arbereshe communities. They are not Arbereshe. They can be considered partially (50%) of Albanian (Pope Clement) or Arbereshe descent, but it does not make them "notable Arbereshe people". --Prodebugger (talk) 11:55, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T11:55:00.000Z","author":"Prodebugger","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:55:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-07T12:16:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

There's no Italian of Albanian descent that is not an Arbëresh with the exception of Albanian expatriates/naturalized immigrants since the 19th century like Demetrio Lecca. Being A of B descent doesn't imply that the person is exclusively of B descent. Btw a move to just Arbëreshë would be sensible instead of Arbëreshë Settlements and Notable Individuals--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 12:16, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T12:16:00.000Z","author":"ZjarriRrethues","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-07T12:16:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:55:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2014\u00a0ZjarriRrethues\u00a0\u2014"}}-->

The matter is very simple. Being Arbereshe means to belong to Arbereshe people in Italy, a minority recognized by law in Italy. Not all the Italians of Albanian descent are Arbereshe, even before the 19th century. As a matter of fact, this template is called "Arbëreshë Settlements and Notable individuals". And Pope Clement XI, Ernesto Sabato, and Antonio Gramsci never lived in an Arbëreshë settlement in Italy. How can they be considered "notable people" of Arbëreshë Settlements in Italy if they never lived in an Arbëreshë Settlement?--Prodebugger (talk) 12:44, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T12:44:00.000Z","author":"Prodebugger","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:44:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T11:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:48:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Making a move from "Arbëreshë Settlements" to "Arbëreshë" doesn't change the matter. --Prodebugger (talk) 12:48, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T12:48:00.000Z","author":"Prodebugger","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:48:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-07T16:17:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Arbëresh=Italian (geographic) of Albanian descent. Living in an Arbëresh settlement isn't prerequisite to be considered an Arbëresh.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 16:17, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T16:17:00.000Z","author":"ZjarriRrethues","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-07T16:17:00.000Z-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T12:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T18:09:00.000Z-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-07T16:17:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2014\u00a0ZjarriRrethues\u00a0\u2014"}}-->

Source? So far, it's an opinion, your opinion. According to your statement, Ernesto Sabato is a notable Arbereshe, but he is also a notable Italian and a notable Argentinian. The famous Italian player Cristian Vieri's mother is French. So, Vieri is also a notable French? According to you, "living in France isn't prerequisite to be considered a French". Again. The singer Madonna is of Italian descent, so is she a notable Italian singer? The actor George Clooney is of Irish, German and English descent. So is George Clooney a notable Irish actor? Is Clooney a notable German actor? Is he a notable English actor? Remember that Pope Clement XI, Ernesto Sabato and Antonio Gramsci are of partial Arbereshe or Albanian Descent.--Prodebugger (talk) 18:09, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-07T18:09:00.000Z","author":"Prodebugger","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Prodebugger-2012-10-07T18:09:00.000Z-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-07T16:17:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

(unindent) Of course living in France isn't prerequisite to be considered French. Cultural/national/ethnic/civic identity has nothing to do with one's birthplace.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 16:40, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-08T16:40:00.000Z","author":"ZjarriRrethues","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ZjarriRrethues-2012-10-08T16:40:00.000Z-Pope_Clement_XI,_Gramsci,_Sabato_can't_be_considered_notable_\"Arbereshe_people\"","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2014\u00a0ZjarriRrethues\u00a0\u2014"}}-->