Talk:X Window System

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	X Window System is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 3, 2005.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 29, 2005 Peer review Reviewed February 1, 2005 Featured article candidate Promoted November 20, 2007 Featured article review Demoted December 5, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed Current status: Former featured article

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization: "X Marks the Spot: Looking back at X11 Developments of Past Year". OSNews. February 25, 2004.

There's a weird archived section from 2004 about how Microsoft lawyers would sue the maintainers of X11 for the name "X Windows" (and...no...I think few lawyers would be stupid enough to do that even when that was the name, not to mention this predates Windows 1.0 so they couldn't do anything). But I don't understand why else the article would start with "not to be confused with Microsoft Windows" because everything on the article points to this not being Microsoft's Windows. Is this a byproduct of that weird section in 2004? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.25.34 (talk) 04:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@72.201.25.34 It's not uncommon to see it called X Windows, X-Windows, etc. For people less technically- (or at least less Unixily-) inclined, it's not improbable they might think anything computer-related called "Windows" is something to do with Microsoft. I'm not sure of the origin of the hatnote, but it doesn't do any harm. Getting that potential confusion cleared up immediately, without the reader getting through more of the article, is not a bad thing. Inops (talk) 17:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

A reference to VcXsrv [1] in Implementation section was removed as not non-notable entry. This is strange as VcXsrv is one of the only 3 available as free implementation on Windows.

The other two are Cygwin/X and Xming. While Cygwin/X is free, opensource and kept updated, the minimum installation is 800 MB, so not suggested but in case you need also posix layer and other tools with windows. Xming on the other way come in two versions, only one (v6.9) is free/public domain/MIT licensed but it is very old, from 2007, unstable and not ready for production env. The other Xming is updated (v7.7) but proprietary licensed and payd so not free.

So most of Windows users today are using VcXsrv. This is expecially true in recent years where WSL is really common and widespread, and more and more these days that WSL got DirectX acceleration with WSLg in Win10 21H1 too.

OK VcXsrv does not have a Wiki page, but this do not do it non-notable Efa (talk) 11:24, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

In the above, the only cited source is the project's SourceForge page. In Wikipedia, talk pages aren't a reliable source, so to continue the discussion, you should demonstrate notability by presenting independent sources which could be used to develop a suitable topic TEDickey (talk) 11:45, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Here some:

https://itservices.cas.unt.edu/software/windows-x-server-vcxsrv

https://www.stat.ipb.ac.id/agusms/index.php/2019/01/15/how-to-run-graphical-linux-applications-on-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows-10/

https://uni-tuebingen.de/fakultaeten/wirtschafts-und-sozialwissenschaftliche-fakultaet/faecher/fachbereich-wirtschaftswissenschaft/wirtschaftswissenschaft/fb-wiwi/einrichtungen-wirtschaftswissenschaft/wiwi-it/services/services/computing-asp/tools/x-server/vcxsrv/

https://www.shogan.co.uk/how-tos/wsl2-gui-x-server-using-vcxsrv/

https://www.uxora.com/unix/45-xdisplay-over-ssh-with-putty-xming-vcxsrv

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1435037/how-to-check-and-confirm-a-right-opengl-version-with-vcxsrv-for-using-ros2-rviz

https://seanthegeek.net/234/graphical-linux-applications-bash-ubuntu-windows/

https://help.cs.uwindsor.ca/mediawiki/index.php/VcXsrv

https://www.scrc.umanitoba.ca/doc/tutorial/T19_3a_xsrvputty.htm

https://www.oit.va.gov/Services/TRM/ToolPage.aspx?tid=9676

https://www.onworks.net/software/windows/app-vcxsrv-windows-x-server

https://codeyarns.com/tech/2019-05-12-vcxsrv-x-server-for-windows.html#gsc.tab=0

--Efa (talk) 14:50, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

sure - then go ahead and create a topic, so that others can validate which are reliable sources TEDickey (talk) 22:24, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

be careful not to get caught up in bureaucracy, damaging the quality of the Wiki product--Efa (talk) 10:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Should this article body and infobox state Wayland as the successor to X11? They're under the same umbrella.

https://www.x.org/wiki/XorgFoundation/ :

X.Org Foundation's (or X.Org for short) purpose is to research, develop, support, organize, administrate, standardize, promote, and defend a free and open accelerated graphics stack and the developers and users thereof. This stack includes, but is not limited to, the following projects: DRM, Mesa, Wayland and the X Window System.

Merko (talk) 11:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Is it explicitly stated that Wayland is the "successor" anywhere? 2601:646:9981:7000:428B:EDAB:F0C5:A0F4 (talk) 03:43, 30 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

"Wayland is a replacement for the X11 window system protocol and architecture with the aim to be easier to develop, extend, and maintain." [2] Merko (talk) 13:10, 30 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

One would expect Wayland to say that.

Xlibre says

""Xlibre is a freshly created fork of the Xorg X11 server, initiated by Enrico Weigelt, aiming to provide a more actively maintained and modernized alternative to the aging X11 system." [3]

Please explain why we should favor one self-serving claim over the other.

For those unfamiliar with what appears to be going on here, I refer you to The Curious Case of XLibre Xserver]. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:46, 3 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Your own link admits that Wayland has been adopted as the successor to X11 in basically every major distro. "What appears to be going on here" is dumb culture war shit. One maintainer loudly forked X11 in June citing "DEI" and it stopped getting any attention by end of July. REAL_MOUSE_IRL talk 00:47, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

The maintainers of the following distributions created packages for XLibre or intend to create them: Artix CuerdOS DeLinuxCo Devuan GhostBSD HomeServerHQ Nemesis OpenMandriva Stormux Vendefoul-Wolf Vipnix. There hasn't been a lot of time for adoption; the inaugural stable release of XLibre was released in June 2025. I expect that if the quality is there after a bunch more testing, those few distros that have purposely rejected Wayland will switch to XLibre. As for distros that are currently sticking with X11 I wouldn't try to guess which way they will go.

As I said, it would be inappropriate for Wikipedia to take sides, especially with zero reliable sources supporting the claim that either is X11's successor. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:21, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wayland is an Xorg project [4], and Xlibre is an independent fork. I don't see how adoption by distros is relevant. Should we list Blender as the successor of Maya if the entire industry switches to it? Merko (talk) 12:26, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Assuming that we decide to not list Blender as the successor of Maya, should we change that decision of IBM/Redhat buys[note 1] both, shuts down Maya. and puts up a similar notice on the Maya webpage? One could instead argue that XLibre is the "real" sucessor because at this point it consists of the X11 codebase plus many of the contributions that were rejected because X11 decided to close down and not accept any changes. (I am not making that argument, BTW. My position is that Wikipedia should not anoint a successor when no independent reliable source has done so).

Note 1: Yes, I realize that technically you can't "buy" an open source project, but nonetheless IBM owns redhat[5] and, while Google doesn't technically own Firefox, Google pays Mozilla half a billion dollars a year[6] -- Approximately 85% of Mozilla's revenue.[7][8] --Guy Macon (talk) 17:48, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wayland being the successor of X11 is sourced (even if only from a primary source), as they are both in Xorg umbrella. Xlibre being the successor due to sharing a codebase is WP:OR. Merko (talk) 23:02, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Of course it is OR. That's why I didn't try to make the article say that XLibre is the successor to X11. I would need to find independent secondary sources to make that claim. I would revert anyone who tried to add that claim without sourcing it. In like manner, you need to find find independent secondary sources to make the claim that Wayland is the successor. I am not going to debate this with you any further. Wikipedia's rules are clear on the topic of basing contentious claims on primary sources. Feel free to post a RfC if you think the community will agree with you. --Guy Macon (talk) 23:24, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have to agree, Wayland's developers describing Wayland as "a replacement" for X11 (emphasis added) is not the same as saying it is the successor. Even if it did explicitly call itself the successor, that would be an WP:ABOUTSELF claim that would need third-party sources. - Aoidh (talk) 00:18, 5 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Guy Macon (talk · contribs), I urge you to reconsider and not revert this anymore. It is clear to me you are biased in favor of XLibre, and you seem to be acting in bad faith here. XLibre isn't a legitimate fork, and there's a reason it's the minority with only a few distributions adopting it. You cannot really change the fact that Wayland has become the de facto standard with GNOME 50 adopting it fully and KDE being on its way to removing X11 support. Wayland being a replacement means it is the X11 successor. There's a lot of evidence it is. Stop putting your personal bias as a fact. -- ~2026-33235-85 (talk) 05:18, 4 June 2026 (UTC) _{Sockpuppet comment striked out by 海盐沙冰 / aka irisChronomia / Talk 21:22, 5 June 2026 (UTC)}Reply

Nobody cares about your Original Research. Show me some reliable sources, separate from the organizations that funded or developed Wayland, that say that it is the replacement for X11.

BTW, I have no bias in favor of XLibre. I, like many others, am waiting and seeing how this rather new software works out it the real world. A am prejudiced in favor of Xenocara, and if anyone want to know why, they can ask on my talk page. It would be off-topic here. --Guy Macon (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

You ignore reality because that's easier than facing it. Do you have "reliable sources, separate from the organizations that funded or developed X" to back up the article's claim that the W Window System is the predecessor of the X Window System? -- Asdx49 (talk) 12:22, 4 June 2026 (UTC) _{Sockpuppet comment striked out by 海盐沙冰 / aka irisChronomia / Talk 21:21, 5 June 2026 (UTC)}Reply

Sure do. "It was predated by the W Window system" --The Register Your turn. Post a reliable source that says that Wayland is THE replacement for X11, or drop the WP:STICK. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:43, 4 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Your use of phrases such as :I understand some of you might be defensive over this due to emotions" is a personal attack. Stop this behavior now. If you do it again, there is a good chance that you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

If you think the consensus is on your side, post a WP:RfC. that will settle the question. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:47, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

I apologize, but I didn't intend it to be a personal attack. I asked several times what is needed and felt confused, as I provided the information that you asked for, and despite this, it was still reverted. It left me guessing as to what the problem was.

Anyway, feel free to block my account and I won't be editing this page anymore, it is clear my contributions are not valued. Do with this page as you please. -- Asdx49 (talk) 03:58, 5 June 2026 (UTC) _{Sockpuppet comment striked out by 海盐沙冰 / aka irisChronomia / Talk 21:21, 5 June 2026 (UTC)}Reply

The article currently says that The Wayland protocol is being developed by several X.Org developers as a prospective replacement (with the Wayland compositors) for X., listing Wayland alongside macOS and Mir as competitors to X. That's very misleading. Wayland has already replaced X in major distros (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL) and desktop environments (GNOME, KDE). The article should recognize reality. Tercer (talk) 09:42, 4 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

And it hasn't in many others, including Linux Mint, Slackware, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, XFCE, MATE, Cinnamon, and Openbox. Nobody cares about your Original Research, nor should they care about mine. Show me some reliable sources, separate from the organizations that funded or developed Wayland, that says that it is anything other than a prospective replacement for X. --Guy Macon (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

There's no lack of sources, you posted one yourself. There is a distinct lack of serious alternatives to Wayland. The only one was MIR, and that is long dead.

Linux Mint is getting there, should have full support for Wayland in version 23. FreeBSD supports Wayland as far as it supports any display server. I don't know about the rest, and in any case we don't need every single project to adopt Wayland for it to be X's successor, what matters is mainstream adoption, and that is pretty unanimous. Tercer (talk) 13:40, 4 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

"Wayland support" on a distro that still ships with X11 by default means nothing (and neither does "XLibre support" for the same reasons). --Guy Macon (talk) 03:47, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

An IP is upset at me folding asdx's comments, and decided that I'm the Big Brother from 1984.

Thank you, IP, for the bellyfeeled love of IngSoc and bb. bb dayorder sockpuppetary crimethinkful, thinkpol rectify and upsub miniplenty (read:SPI). 海盐沙冰 _{/ aka irisChronomia / Talk} 17:36, 6 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

• User Asdx49 was renamed by User:AccountVanishRequests and globally locked from all Wikipedia projects. I will refrain from linking to the new name per meta:Account vanishing. --Guy Macon (talk) 10:54, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

EDIT: False alarm. It was all part of a stupid game they are trying to play on the ANI admins. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Asdx49

• @Guy Macon A completely unnecessary development, and a direct consequence of your appalling behaviour. I hope you take this opportunity to learn something. Tercer (talk) 13:37, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

You are off topic. As it says at the top of this page, "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the X Window System article". If you have a complaint about another editor's behavior, please take it to WP:ANI, where I am confident that it will get the attention it deserves. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:35, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Unsurprisingly, you learned nothing, and won't improve anything. Tercer (talk) 16:56, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

This is bordering on yet another PA. 海盐沙冰 _{/ aka irisChronomia / Talk} 21:24, 5 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

The way I see it, since the page is about X and not display servers, Wayland shouldn't be considered a "successor" to X Window System (the protocol).

And saying that Wayland is a "next version" of the X protocol (kinda as if it were an X12) would not be appropriate as the Wayland developers specifically choose to not be associated with the X name and consider Wayland as a standalone separate project.

An argument could be made that Wayland is the successor of Xorg, though. ~2026-42891-48 (talk) 15:57, 4 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

We have no page named Xorg. That link redirects to an actual page.

We have:

• X Window System (Often called X11, or simply X), a windowing system for bitmap displays.
• X.Org Server, an implementation of the X Window System from the X.Org Foundation.
• X.Org Foundation, a non-profit that manages Direct Rendering Manager, Mesa3D, Wayland, and the X.Org Server.
• X window manager, any window manager that runs on top of the X Window System.

--Guy Macon (talk) 16:56, 4 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

According to V (operating system):

The little-known W Window System got its name because it was first hosted on the V operating system, and the better-known X Window System in turn got its name because its first version was based partly on W.^[1]

Note the existing (but not verifiable!!) source.
On that note: We also need the origin of the name of the V OS. I presume it’s gonna be based on Thoth OS and “U” not being a good name because it would be confused with “you”. But of course we would want to know for real!
— ~2026-38998-03 (talk) 15:10, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ~2026-38998-03 (talk) 15:10, 9 July 2026 (UTC)Reply