Talk:Metamorphosen

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I don't write perfectly in english. So, if someone could modify the article following my indications, it would be great.--Oktavian 17:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

1. ...it was written as a statement of mourning for Germany's destruction during the Second World War, in particular the Munich Opera House : it's no longer sure !)...

Indeed, the piece could be an allusion to Goethe's metamorphosis of the plants and metamorphosis of the animals. In a sketch for 4-voice choir, Strauss put also music on verses of Goethe which deal with self-reflection and self-metamorphosis.

1. Beethoven's motive : The piece uses as one of its primary motivic element a passage from the funeral march from Beethoven's Third Symphony this is but only a resemblance which Strauss recognized as unconscious...

--Oktavian 19:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

I agree, your statements are very plausible. Zaslav (talk) 02:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Would anyone like to add anything about the septet version, prepared from a short score discovered in 1990? The only source I have is a sleeve note (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67574) and don't know if using this counts as original research by me. Shimwell (talk) 15:39, 12 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

sorted. I mention the septet in the draft (in fact Strauss never completed the septet version: he expanded it to the 23 string version in the last phase of composition). The septet was a shorthand "scratch" version as part of the compositional process. However, I also added a mention the septet version by Leopold in 1996 (he was, I believe, a cellist in the Vienna Phil, and may have been inspired to do this by the discovery of the partial septet version at Garmisch). It would be interesting top know if he used Strauss' sketchbook as a basis for his version). I think that the Leopold septet version is now performed more often than the 23 string version. Byronmercury (talk) 10:33, 9 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

• A fuller history is at Hyperion's website, which you've indeed already linked to. As it is, our one-line summary suggests that it's wholly by Leopold, and is not at all even based on Strauss. Schissel | Sound the Note! 11:33, 11 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

I decided to improve this article by adding some additional material. It now merits inclusion in the Strauss template. I left the stuff about "Hitlers funeral" etc, but in my own opinion this is nonsense. If people agree, we could delete the entire last paragraph to "interpretations". However, I await comment before doing this.Byronmercury (talk) 15:42, 8 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

Actually, I think that the Beethoven-Napoleon and Strauss-Nazi parallel is worth leaving since it has some academic back up (although not one I personally find convincing). I still propose to delete the "Hitler's funeral" unless it has any supporters: Vermuelen is not an important or reliable source and had no way of knowing what Strauss thought.Byronmercury (talk) 10:27, 9 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

Jackson is the source for the Vermuelen quote, so I bow to the Strauss Scholar!Byronmercury (talk) 11:30, 30 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

Fair enough. Matthijs Vermeulen was quite an opinionated(! one recalls some other statements of his.) critic (and imhonesto an excellent composer, in a somewhat different tradition than Strauss' later.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 11:37, 11 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

I am puzzled. How can "The most terrible period of human history is at an end, the twelve year reign of bestiality, ignorance and anti-culture under the greatest criminals, during which Germany's 2,000 years of cultural evolution met its doom." refer to anything other than the 12 years of Nazi rule? Is there no authority who has noticed this unambiguous expression, that can be quoted? Zaslav (talk) 02:57, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I have to agree. Feel free to edit the article accordingly. Softlavender (talk) 03:26, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I have now cleaned up that section accordingly. -- Softlavender (talk) 23:29, 14 March 2025 (UTC)Reply