Talk:Fagging

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"Nevertheless, unofficial fagging is still quite common in many English schools." I live in England and have never heard of this; indeed I've only ever heard of fagging existing in (a small minority) of what we call "public" schools (i.e. a select few private schools). In the absence of any reference I've removed this statement. 64.103.93.95 (talk) 19:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Is the author using anarchy in the correct sense of the word? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.69.14.35 (talk) 07:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC).Reply

I seem to remember girls in the Malory Towers and/or St Clare's books fagging for older girls - at present, the article makes it sound like it only happened to boys. Did girls do it, too? -- Dandelions 23:02, 25 September 2007 (UTC)Reply

While hardly a credible historical source, "fagged out" is used in the Schoolgirls Own annual 1927. But this is in a story written (most likely) by Charles Hamilton, who also wrote stories set in Boy's schools, most famously Greyfriars (with Billy Bunter) and St Jim's. The story doesnt mention any younger girls "fagging" for older girls as such, but i'll carry on reading XD. Speaking of which there are far too few articles relating to the world of Charles Hamilton's stories, each school seems to have had a full cast of characters, a nearby rival school with it's own characters, and also a nearby village with yet more recurring shopkeepers and working-class urchins... and there was at least 4 schools (Greyfriars, St Jim's, Cliff house and Morcove), along with at least 1 more (Rookwood) which was only seen on certian occasions 86.158.27.179 (talk) 16:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)Reply

This article says that the practise of fagging has continued, and is now identified as ragging or hazing, but is that the case? I thought ragging was more like out and out bullying and abuse, whereas fagging was different in that jobs and chores had to be done. Should the comparison be removed? JimBrownish (talk) 15:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

This might be cleared up my someone finding some references, but the article attempts to define a rationale for the practice of fagging.

It could just as well be established bullying, tolerated by the institution as it makes life easier. As similar hierarchies evolve in prisons and environments, there is no reason to presume this one was "designed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.131.43 (talk) 19:29, 12 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

This is actually in one of the main sources stated at the bottom of the page. The page borrows substantially from Encyclopedia britannica (11th edition) which is public domain. If you look up the reference it states that the system of fagging was formalised a schools to reduce bullying and create a form of self governance of the students. The Fag masters were responsible for the welbeing of their fags and had to ensure that they weren't being bullied etc (Rather than having schoolmasters bothered). While the actual function may be debatable, since its source to a reliable source its not really pov pushing. Clovis Sangrail (talk) 03:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Nonetheless it is an institutionalised form of bullying and if the article wants to claim neutrality, that should be made clear. The United Kingdom is one of the countries with the highest amounts of institutionalised and socially accepted forms of bullying, especially at schools, with thousands of youths suffering or committing/trying to commit suicide as a consequence. To paint fagging in some retrospective golden haze of nostalgia, as this article does to a large extent, isn't helpful to discerning what is what and where it stems from. --Grainsofsalt (talk) 07:07, 22 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

My husband attended an English public school (Mill Hill) in the 50s, was a fag and later had one. He did not feel at all bullied in this role (though he was not especially happy at school, it was for quite other reasons). I suspect you have an agenda and probably no direct experience. As for the UK comment - rubbish. We don't have the US' vile frat system for a start.

..."The United Kingdom is one of the countries with the highest amounts of institutionalised and socially accepted forms of bullying"... This sounds somewhat biased in itself. Without a solid reference, I think it should be ignored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.34.80.28 (talk) 19:49, 30 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

HERE HERE @ 72.34.80.28, the frat system (and HELL WEEK) is how i KNOW THAT the frats and fagging doesn't automatically deescalate but decade by decade continues to become unruly until forced to reduce by saner minds or eradicated by death of some. Qazwiz (talk) 11:04, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

while i can see how such a system might devolve into some bullying, the practice definitely had practical beginnings. it's hard to understand in our modern mindset (think: slaves&masters are bad for instance) the closest we have have now are live-in nannies which were unpaid prior to modern "minimum wage" thinking. they were fed & clothed in lieu of wages, and trained between their duties to watch and informally train the next generation of Lairds & Ladies (manners and customs mostly, tutors did normal 3-Rs instructions) until which time most were married off, often by arranged marriages so their father wasn't burdened by expense of an unemployed. some would become "members of the family" and take care of multiple generations of kids (usually eldest son's eldest son's children and occasionally a few nieces and/or nephews.)

now thinking of those earlier days of "toting water, cleaning bed pans, collecting firewood, running messages (no phone to call, a fag would deliver a short note on or with his master's calling card then wait for the reply.)

fag/fagging is a modern spelling as far as I've heard. before they were called faggots. and it was an honored designation. think of the jobs they do. in the 1800's and before (as in before electric and gas conveniences) water, heat, waste, and transporting machines the servants did all the household duties but a school didn't usually have money to hire most jobs out so a few key leadership positions would need to be hired like: handyman, cook, stableman/gardener (horses and livestock provided excellent fertilizer for garden)

so if the seniors wanted a warm fire to wake to, faggots needed to be brought to fireplace (a faggot is simply a bundle but most used as a bundle of sticks since such was needed daily if not more often.)

so not surprising that someone who carried faggots daily be called a faggot. after the job degraded into including sexual favors would it eventually give it a negative sexual meaning.Qazwiz (talk) 11:04, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

SOme of the usages of the word fag in this article look like they are jokes. For example, "when he was a young fag". I think someone is pulling your leg at times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.34.80.28 (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. Reading this article temporarily turned me into Beavis and Butt Head. 12.154.105.6 (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

I wonder if we might include the page Senpai_and_kōhai in the See Also section. Based on my own familiarity, and the information in each article, I think it's a quite similar tradition. 14.2.35.239 (talk) 17:15, 18 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

The article implies that this term and concept was/is restricted to British public (i.e.private) schools. It was used much more widely than that - in my 60s state boys grammar school, younger pupils (particularly in their first year) were referred to as 'fags' by older boys, though there was no tradition of them acting as servants. It was a neutral or even affectionate term. There was no sexual connotation. Ef80 (talk) 20:39, 31 January 2025 (UTC)Reply