Talk:European Fiscal Compact

Talk:European Fiscal Compact

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Bailout program question

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The fiscal compact compliance table had different entries for the Bailout column. It had "No", "Yes" (meaning active), and "Yes, expired". It seems to me that this last one only means the member state receives no new bailout money, so wouldn't a fourth entry "Paid back" be possible? If so, are there any states close to doing so? Ireland's debt-to-GDP ration has sharply fallen, and Latvia has a relatively low debt and low deficit. --Ambi Valent (talk) 11:07, 14 November 2019 (UTC)Reply

The correct dates in the table in the Entry into force, applicability and implementation section

Latest comment: 23 days ago3 comments2 people in discussion

User Danlaycock keeps reverting the dates for each individual country in the table in the Entry into force, applicability and implementation section to 1 January 2013. User Danlaycock is not aware that the treaty starts to apply in a given country on the day it enters into force for that country. Therefore, 1 January 2013 is the correct date for most countries, but not all where the treaty entered into force on a different date. Here are two official sources that have already been added to the article and prove my point:
Source #1 - https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/documents/treaties-agreements/agreement/?id=2012008
Source #2 - Section 2.7 - "According to article 14(2) and (3), the TSCG needs to be ratified by at least twelve euro area Member States to enter into force among them. When the treaty was signed the envisaged date for its entry into force was 1st January 2013. This objective was attained for twelve euro area Member states: Austria, Cyprus, Germany, Estonia, Spain, France, Greece, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Finland, and Slovenia." - https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/afco/dv/2014-01-15_pe462455_v21_/2014-01-15_pe462455_v21_en.pdf
Information on Wikipedia should be checked against reliable sources, not against the interpretations of users who do not understand the basics of international law. THE TREATY BEGINS TO APPLY FOR A PARTICULAR STATE ON THE DAY IT ENTERS INTO FORCE IN THAT STATE. KajedDyleris (talk) 13:40, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Even the Treaty itself proves my point:
Article 14 (2) - "This Treaty shall enter into force on 1 January 2013, provided that twelve Contracting Parties whose currency is the euro have deposited their instrument of ratification, or on the first day of the month following the deposit of the twelfth instrument of ratification by a Contracting Party whose currency is the euro, whichever is the earlier."
Article 14 (3) - "This Treaty shall apply as from the date of entry into force amongst the Contracting Parties whose currency is the euro which have ratified it. It shall apply to the other Contracting Parties whose currency is the euro as from the first day of the month following the deposit of their respective instrument of ratification.
User Danlaycock could have at least read the text of the Treaty itself before making any edits to the article. KajedDyleris (talk) 17:27, 18 July 2026 (UTC)Reply
No need for personal attacks, I've read the treaty thoroughly a number of times.
The issue is you're conflating two separate concepts ("entry into force" and "applicability"), and ignoring the derogation subsequently specified in Article 14(4). This makes it explicitly clear that Title V applicability is excluded from the Article 14(3) ratification condition that you cite above: "Title V shall apply to all Contracting Parties concerned as from the date of entry into force of this Treaty."
The correct timeline is as per below:
  • 21 December 2012:
Finland becomes the 12th eurozone state to deposit its instrument of ratification of the treaty, thereby meeting the conditions in Article 14(2):
"provided that twelve Contracting Parties whose currency is the euro have deposited their instrument of ratification"
  • 1 January 2013:
Treaty enters into force, as per Article 14(2):
"This Treaty shall enter into force on 1 January 2013, provided that twelve Contracting Parties whose currency is the euro have deposited their instrument of ratification"
The treaty is fully applicable for eurzone states that have ratified as of entry into force, as per Article 14(3):
"This Treaty shall apply as from the date of entry into force amongst the Contracting Parties whose currency is the euro which have ratified it."
Title V applies to all contracting states (regardless of whether they have ratified or not) as of entry into force, as per the derogation of Article 14(4):
"By derogation from paragraphs 3 and 5, Title V shall apply to all Contracting Parties concerned as from the date of entry into force of this Treaty."
I'll restore the long-term consensus timeline to the article as per the above.
If you'd still like to propose a change to this, then please provide an explanation for why you believe that the clear derogation in the treaty text for Title V applicability should be ignored. TDL (talk) 03:41, 4 August 2026 (UTC)Reply

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