Talk:Computer security/Archive 2

• Ross J. Anderson: Security Engineering: A Guide to Building Dependable Distributed Systems, ISBN 0-471-38922-6
• Morrie Gasser: Building a secure computer system ISBN 0-442-23022-2, 1988
• Stephen Haag, Maeve Cummings, Donald McCubbrey, Alain Pinsonneault, Richard Donovan: Management Information Systems for the information age, ISBN 0-07-091120-7
• E. Stewart Lee: Essays about Computer Security Cambridge, 1999
• Peter G. Neumann: Principled Assuredly Trustworthy Composable Architectures 2004
• Paul A. Karger, Roger R. Schell: Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation, IBM white paper.
• Bruce Schneier: Secrets & Lies: Digital Security in a Networked World, ISBN 0-471-25311-1
• Robert C. Seacord: Secure Coding in C and C++. Addison Wesley, September, 2005. ISBN 0-321-33572-4
• Clifford Stoll: Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage, Pocket Books, ISBN 0-7434-1146-3
• Network Infrastructure Security, Angus Wong and Alan Yeung, Springer, 2009.
• John R. Vacca (ed.): Computer and information security handbook, Morgan Kaufmann Publishers, 2009
• Dawood Fateh - Cyber Intelligence and Digital Forensics 2012

In some sentences, it seems like there are some words missing, such as: "Due to some of the European's antivirus firms (e.g. BullGuard, F-Secure, Frisk, Panda, Sophos, TG Soft, ...) to solve this problem, the European Commission has decided to establish the European Cybercrime Centre (EC3)."

Towards the end, it starts to look like some kind of job advertisement (talking directly to the reader, etc.). The source (29 - http://www.dhs.gov/join-dhs-cybersecurity) actually seems to be just that, any reason why it should be here? The text looks like it was pasted directly from the source, regardless of how it fits or doesn't fit the article. (can't find which license the source (30 - http://www.cs.gwu.edu/academics/graduate_programs/master/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-jobs) uses either?, might be important) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.229.217.107 (talk) 16:20, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The RFC 4949 defined computer security (COMPUSEC)as

     1. (I) Measures to implement and assure security services in a
     computer system, particularly those that assure access control
     service.

     Usage: Usually refers to internal controls (functions, features,
     and technical characteristics) that are implemented in software
     (especially in operating systems); sometimes refers to internal
     controls implemented in hardware; rarely used to refer to external
     controls.

THEN computer security isn´t "cybersecurity" ... "cybersecurity" is information security (INFOSEC)

     (N) Measures that implement and assure security services in
     information systems, including in computer systems (see: COMPUSEC)
     and in communication systems (see: COMSEC).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.152.249.61 (talk) 15:02, 10 January 2014 (UTC) 

I think this article could be improved: There is no mention how computer security relates to computer safety. In particular, some definitions of computer security require the presence of an attacker, otherwise a random disk failure is also considered a security issue - sometimes it is, but more conventionally it would be an issue of reliability. And in a nuclear powerplant or aircraft it would be an issue of computer saftey. It would be a good idea if this article expands on these differences.

Also: The claims in "This forms the foundation for a secure operating system which, if certain critical parts are designed and implemented correctly, can ensure the absolute impossibility of penetration by hostile elements" overstates the abilities of secure operating systems. Features that people nowadays expect of all useful operating systems (playing multimedia files, running networked processes) are quite hard to secure. Eliminating side channels is really quite difficult and there exist arguments that trusted applications are unavoidable (see the RAID paper "Interfacing Trusted Applications with Intrusion Detection Systems") —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.243.70.48 (talk) 03:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

This article needs some serious reorganization. It starts out at a random point in a security discussion (vulnerabilities) and continues along a path of discussing the types of security attacks, vulnerabilities, and weaknesses. What I was expecting was an article discussing 1) What is computer security? 2) Why is it needed? 3) What are common approaches? 4) What Standards Exist? 5) What is the history of computer security? 6) What is the future?

I would take all the discussion of computer vulnerabilities, types of attacks, etc and move it to a separate article on computer vulnerabilities or shorten it and put it in the "Why it is needed" and "History" sections. An another alternative is to add an appendix on Vulnerabilities. If anyone is working on a reorganization, please let me know and I will try to help.

Glebovitz (talk) 13:44, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Hello! Just checking, have you already looked at the Merger proposal section below? Some plans have been already discussed there. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 00:52, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi! I recently added a policy section to the article (and some info on the Kill switch bill.) I think this section needs to be expanded and include all important legislative and regulatory efforts related to computer security. Anybody want to discuss this? Anybody want to help? Lemme know! Thanks! P@ddington (talk) 17:25, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi P@ddington! I would like to add a small section on Canadian legislation related to computer/cyber security. Will follow the style used in previous sections. --JRPolicy (talk) 18:06, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Today, someome has unilaterally decided to remove whole sections of this article based on their own limited perception and opinion. Should this happen? Should such a self-opinionated person have the tright to just chop and change like that, when it is clear their knowledge is patchy at best?

I have reverted. Can the article be protected unless this is at least discussed? Can that person be monitored in case the butcher other articles too? Colletively decisions work better than the arrogance of individuals who are obviously not entrenched in the subejct itself.

This is a farcical approach to editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.76.118.10 (talk) 08:57, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Cybercrime, Computer Security, downloading tunes, and breaking into server-rooms are completely different; perhaps it would be a good move to separate some of the issues, enabling less-tech-savvy readers to get relevant info quickly rather than reading a 10-page article..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.201.80.76 (talk) 20:16, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello, 76.76.118.10. Please assume good faith and act civil towards other editors and avoid personal attacks. You do not know the perceptions, opinions and/or knowledge of other editors and the article was not 'raped', so if we can both WP:AGF the conversation can take a more pleasant tone from here on out.

I assume you're specifically referring to the Bold pruning of external links from the EL section. If you're instead referring to removing external links from the body of the article or removing See Also entries already linked in the body of the article, I can address those edits as well.

I'd like to point you to the section Wikipedia:External links, where you'll find more information about what makes a good External Link and what doesn't. From WP:EL: "Some external links are welcome..., but it is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a lengthy or comprehensive list of external links related to each topic. No page should be linked from a Wikipedia article unless its inclusion is justifiable according to this guideline and common sense. The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link". You'll also note ELPoints #3 says "Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum".

Specifically, for this article, while checking patrolling the EL section, I noticed the large number of links (16), including a couple dead links. The good news is that there is already link to an external directory (DMOZ). I opted to boldly remove 15 of the 16 (including the 2 dead links), leaving the DMOZ link. As I mentioned in the edit summary, editors wishing to add external links should consider placing them inside the DMOZ directory. I placed the NoMoreLinks, which also contains the content guideline for EL and DMOZ info.

If you'd like to work towards consensus on what external links should remain while still meeting the "kept to a minimum" standard, we can start that process now. My justification for keeping the DMOZ link is it allows for unlimited external links to be available via that link and is permitted via WP:ELMAYBE #3. For the deadlinks, "Links to dead URLs in a list of external links are of no use to Wikipedia articles" WP:ELDEAD.

What links would you like to keep and what is the justification for that link remaining in EL? Thanks, Stesmo (talk) 10:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

No mate, you have it the wrong way around. What links would YOU like to removed and what is the justification for that link being removed? You are the one jumping into this page and deleting whole swathes of information. YOU are therefore the one who should justify your extreme edits in detail. There are some excellent appropriate links there, but I am not playing the role of link salesman for any of them, just to put the veneer of respectability on what was ill conceived mass cull. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.76.119.3 (talk) 08:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah. I've explained and justified the removal in the edit summary and in this conversation. I've given links to the guidelines, even quoted relevant bits. This is one of those bits from WP:EL: "The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link".

You mention that there are some excellent and appropriate links. I'm inferring that means you see that there are some there that aren't excellent or appropriate. Perhaps we can agree that some of those links can be removed while we work towards consensus. Obviously the dead links can be removed... Which of other 13 links aren't excellent or appropriate?

Thanks, Stesmo (talk) 18:51, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

(I agree with the removal. Looks like the article has attracted a great deal of spam since my last cleanup.[1])

The burden is on inclusion, so which links are excellent? Specifically, which links are offer detailed, relevant, and new information on the general topic of computer security that cannot be incorporated into this article? --Ronz (talk) 22:07, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

I propose that Cyber security and countermeasure be merged into Computer security. I think that the content in the Cyber security article can easily be explained in the context of Computer security. Since so many computers are connected to the Internet, I don't think we can easily distinguish from an Internet-based attack that targets information on a computer from someone attacking the computer locally, to access that same information. I came to this conclusion when reading the Computer security article and seeing that someone had already referenced cybersecurity as another name for computer security.Timtempleton (talk) 19:12, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Both of these articles are awash in headings of various levels so I can see how they could be merged. Most desperate here is a need to go through and figure out how to make a usable WP:SUMMARY article on computer and network security. If merging is the first step towards that, so be it. ~KvnG 12:38, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I also agree that merging these two articles is the way to go. Maybe we could briefly discuss the actual merging plan first, regarding the new layout and what goes where etc.? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 00:42, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I've been reading Wikipedia to try to get my arms around the multiple articles with redundant copy in the area of computing security. It's worse than I thought. But before getting into that, I've also had a chance to think about this a bit more after making the merge proposal. One argument against my own proposed merge is that cyber security includes the issue of Internet-enabled smart phone vulnerabilities, while the name computer security only works in this context if you make the assumption that a smart phone is technically also a computer. That has to be addressed by the verbiage. But going back to the bigger issue, it's a challenge that there are articles about mobile security, computer security, network security, cyber security, cyber security and countermeasure, cloud security, vulnerability (computing) and a host of other areas that aren't cohesively or thematically linked. I'm cataloging the relevant articles in a spreadsheet, and the more I find, the more I agree that we need to take a shot at coming up with a grand unifying theme to make it all work. My thought process, which I'd love feedback on, is to split this into granular subjects and then find ways to link and coalesce them into greater categories. One option is to have articles based on the different computer network components (access devices, transmission devices, data storage devices, etc.), and then break down the access devices further into the different types (mobile, desktop, tablet, etc.), and discuss the vulnerabilities for each as part of their articles. Another dimension is thinking of what feature actually causes the vulnerability. It could be a flaw in the operating system, social engineering, or something else. Items that are significant enough would have their own article, but then we'd work in the unifying direction - small to large. Part of this solution could include updating the computer security template, so article readers can see how things all fit together at a glance. So step 1 - catalog all the security articles that are all over the place, step 2 - find the lowest common denominator themes and, step 3, build from small to large. Thoughts?Timtempleton (talk) 00:14, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Sounds great to me! There are currently numerous articles, but on the other side the whole matter is simply too large to fit into a single article. Your plan sounds awesome, so we'll be able to get a big picture of the current articles; then we go and extract what they all have in common into an "umbrella" Computer security article, while "offloading" specific stuff to separate articles and providing pointers in form of summaries with {{main}} links. Just as you noted above, mobile and wireless devices security is a whole world of its own, for example; web applications are another world, and so on. Thoughts? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 01:58, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

It's a plan. I have to head to Vegas this week for Interop, and then taxes come up, but at some point I'll be able to make a good starting article list and see what we can do to get this going. I may use my sandbox for a staging area for the different articles that I can find.Timtempleton (talk) 07:02, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Just take your time, there's no hurry. Have some fun in Vegas! :) — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 07:10, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I'll be interested to see what you come up with. I have added a hyperlink to your list above and deleted cyber security because it is a redirect to this article.

It is my experience that incremental improvements to existing articles are the best way to work on the encyclopedia. Incremental improvements certainly don't have to be mild. Having a big picture or roadmap sounds like a good idea and I have been down that road myself. What I've found is that you can spend a lot of time on a plan and then quickly find that the plan doesn't work or another editor pokes a pin in it once you go to implement it.

So I advise that you put your time into doing the proposed merge. Once that is done, the next step will likely be clear. ~KvnG 05:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Good point. Too detailed plans usually remain just that – plans. Though, a rough sketch can't hurt, and that's what I had in mind. Hope you agree. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 06:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

No, it can't hurt. ~KvnG 15:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

While working on the previously discussed merge, I thought as an interim step it would be useful to update and insert the Computer security template. I wanted to show everyone the different computer security articles that exist, which may not be synched or otherwise organized into a cohesive framework. This illustrates the issue the merge is intended to solve, and also gives us a visual roadmap with which to think conceptually about what's duplicated and what's missing, from every article.Timtempleton (talk) 23:27, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

That's an excellent place to start. Nice work. I'll put this template on my watchlist. ~KvnG 13:11, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. I think we are making a great mistake by merging these terms; they should not be merged. Cybersecurity, countermeasures, and computer security are three different things. While they overlap, they are still distinct and independent from one another. Computer security is simply part of cybersecurity. While computer security focuses on the computers only, cybersecurity encompasses the enterprise, the individuals, data, infrastructure, and the way data is being processed in transit and at rest. And there are a lot of security measures we put in place to ensure cybersecurity and computer security. We need to separate the three terms please. Sam M. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybersecurity101 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Merge complete. Everything in the article pertains to computer security. If cybersecurity can be differentiated sufficiently from computer security, then a new article on it is called for. I think one should start by explaining how cybersecurity is different than computer security. As far as I can tell, they are synonyms. The Transhumanist 03:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Cyberbot II has detected links on Computer security which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://perry4law.org/clic/

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/blog/?p=53

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cecsrdi/?p=568

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cecsrdi/?p=939

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cecsrdi/?p=1095

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cecsrdi/?p=1068

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cecsrdi/?p=1017

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cecsrdi/?p=544

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

• http://perry4law.org/cyberlawsinindia/?p=102

  Triggered by \bperry4law\.org\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Computer security. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150704124401/http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=4ee63497-ca5b-4a4b-9bba-04b7f4cb0123 to http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=4ee63497-ca5b-4a4b-9bba-04b7f4cb0123

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 21:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello everyone, Computer security is a small segment of cybersecurity. The title needs to be changed from Computer security to Cybersecurity. I teach cybersecurity and it encompasses computer security, infrastructure security, and many more. Once you change the title, I will post a good definition. Thank you, Dr. Musa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybersecurity101 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Many people seem to treat the two as synonyms; I don't think the title particularly needs to change unless a consensus of published sources (any you'd like to cite?) supports the narrow definition. -- Beland (talk) 23:32, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Computer security. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://rt.com/usa/anonymous-barrettbrown-sopa-megaupload-241/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080611210347/https://www.dhs.gov/xabout/structure/editorial_0839.shtm to https://www.dhs.gov/xabout/structure/editorial_0839.shtm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:34, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Computer security. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h4962/text
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131420281100/http://www.stratcom.mil/factsheets/Cyber_Command/ to http://www.stratcom.mil/factsheets/Cyber_Command/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:17, 11 August 2017 (UTC)