Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/April 2010
This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
A couple of us are trying to get a meetup going for April 24 in Tokyo, time and place to be determined. If interested, please sign up here. Cla68 (talk) 00:55, 31 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-31T00:55:00.000Z","author":"Cla68","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cla68-2010-03-31T00:55:00.000Z-Tokyo_meetup","replies":["c-Saqib_Qayyum-2010-03-31T05:30:00.000Z-Cla68-2010-03-31T00:55:00.000Z","c-NativeForeigner-2010-04-01T03:37:00.000Z-Cla68-2010-03-31T00:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
It would be great if someone pass this announcement on Japanese Wikipedia as well. --Sakitalk05:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-31T05:30:00.000Z","author":"Saqib Qayyum","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Saqib_Qayyum-2010-03-31T05:30:00.000Z-Cla68-2010-03-31T00:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cla68-2010-03-31T22:46:00.000Z-Saqib_Qayyum-2010-03-31T05:30:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Saki"}}-->
I don't have the language skills to do that. Could someone post a link here to the appropriate page on the Japanese wiki where the announcement should be made? Cla68 (talk) 22:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-31T22:46:00.000Z","author":"Cla68","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cla68-2010-03-31T22:46:00.000Z-Saqib_Qayyum-2010-03-31T05:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-03-31T23:24:00.000Z-Cla68-2010-03-31T22:46:00.000Z"]}}-->
Wikipedia:Meetup/Tokyo has an inter-language link to ja:Wikipedia:オフラインミーティング/東京. User:Saki made a preliminary announcement there.[1] ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-31T23:24:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-03-31T23:24:00.000Z-Cla68-2010-03-31T22:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Jealousy. Hope you guys have a good time. It does look like that's the appropriate interwiki link. NativeForeignerTalk/Contribs/Vote!03:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-01T03:37:00.000Z","author":"NativeForeigner","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-NativeForeigner-2010-04-01T03:37:00.000Z-Cla68-2010-03-31T00:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
FYI, there's a note at Talk:Hiroshi Araki, that says that the article might be a conflation of three people with the same name, instead of one person. 76.66.192.73 (talk) 07:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-03T07:24:00.000Z","author":"76.66.192.73","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-76.66.192.73-2010-04-03T07:24:00.000Z-Hiroshi_Araki","replies":[]}}-->
Hello, I am going to work on the article Toryumon and I was wondering what that name actually meant? It doesn't say in the article and I have no hope of reading the Japanese version of the article so I figured I'd come to the authority on Japanese on Wikipedia. Can anyone translate the name for me? Thanks in advance MPJ -DK 06:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-04T06:30:00.000Z","author":"MPJ-DK","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MPJ-DK-2010-04-04T06:30:00.000Z-Translation_question_(Toryumon)","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T09:32:00.000Z-MPJ-DK-2010-04-04T06:30:00.000Z"],"displayName":"MPJ"}}-->
Well, the kanji literally mean "fighting dragon gate" or "fighting imperial gate". "Dragon" and "imperial" are often the same thing as the dragon was used as a symbol of the Chinese emperor (not sure about the Japanese emperor). ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe09:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-04T09:32:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T09:32:00.000Z-MPJ-DK-2010-04-04T06:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T09:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
Yes, Toryumon (闘龍門, Tōryūmon) is a coined word and literally means Fighting dragon gate. The word is coined after the homonym Tōryūmon (登龍門) that literally means climbing up dragon gate or (carp) swimming up dragon gate (river) and means gateway to success or stepping-stone to success. See related article Dragon Gate. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:13, 4 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T09:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-MPJ-DK-2010-04-04T14:03:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z","c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T16:31:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thank you so much, that makes a whole lot of sense in the context of the article. I appreciate it. MPJ -DK 14:03, 4 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-04T14:03:00.000Z","author":"MPJ-DK","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-MPJ-DK-2010-04-04T14:03:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"MPJ"}}-->
One last thing - by the WP:Japan guidelines shouldn't the article be at "Tōryūmon" then and not "Toryumon" (turned into a redirect)?
It should probably be at Toryumon (Último Dragón) and a disambiguation page should be made at Tōryūmon (with Toryumon pointing to it). ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe16:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-04T16:31:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T16:31:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-04T10:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T17:05:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T16:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
I've moved it there (Toryumon (Último Dragón)) and made Toryumon a disambiguation page. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe17:05, 4 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-04T17:05:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T17:05:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-04T16:31:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
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Urgent: FLC of List of National Treasures of Japan (temples)
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I invite comments, questions and suggestions for the featured list candidacy of List of National Treasures of Japan (temples). The nomination page can be found here. bamse (talk) 08:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-18T08:36:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-03-18T08:36:00.000Z-Urgent:_FLC_of_List_of_National_Treasures_of_Japan_(temples)","replies":["c-Bamse-2010-04-07T08:51:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-03-18T08:36:00.000Z"]}}-->
The article has been listed as "FLCs of special note" because it has not received enough reviews yet. It is therefore in danger of failing for formal reasons (not enough reviews). I hope that somebody from the project has the time to review it. The criteria it should be checked against are found here and the review comments should go here.bamse (talk) 08:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-07T08:51:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-07T08:51:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-03-18T08:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
What does 長谷寺御造営方諸色入用銀目録 and 旧初重軸部（組物を含む） mean? They appear in notes 35 and 39 of List of National Treasures of Japan (temples) and refer to the hon-dō at Hase-dera and the kondō of Hōryū-ji respectively. bamse (talk) 21:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-07T21:52:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-07T21:52:00.000Z-Translation_help","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-20T07:15:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-07T21:52:00.000Z"]}}-->
As for 目録, it's a cashbook or an account book of building the temple. The reading is gozōeikata- shosikinyūyōginmokuroku. As for 旧初重軸部, kyūshojyūjikubu, it's the original wooden columns, pillars, and other parts of Kondo damaged by the1949 fire. Please remember these two in themselves are not national treasure. They are the items just attached to national treasure. Oda Mari (talk) 07:15, 20 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-20T07:15:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-20T07:15:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-07T21:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bamse-2010-04-21T18:23:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-20T07:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thank you. Out of curiosity: do you know if the original columns, etc are still in place or have they been replaced after the fire? bamse (talk) 18:23, 21 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-21T18:23:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-21T18:23:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-20T07:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-22T06:53:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-21T18:23:00.000Z"]}}-->
The answer is here. See these too. [2], [3], and [4]. The warehouse stands near 大宝蔵院/daihōzōin, the building with the red doors. See the first image of Hōryū-ji#image. Reproduction images are here. Oda Mari (talk) 06:53, 22 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-22T06:53:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-22T06:53:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-21T18:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bamse-2010-04-22T08:50:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-22T06:53:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thank you once more. Very interesting information. bamse (talk) 08:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-22T08:50:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-22T08:50:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-22T06:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
As detailed in last week's Signpost, WildBot has been patrolling Wikipedia-Books and searched for various problems in them, such as books having duplicate articles or containing redirects. WikiProject Wikipedia-Books is in the process of cleaning them up, but help would be appreciated. For this project, the following books have problems:
The problem reports explain in details what exactly are the problems, why they are problems, and how to fix them. This way anyone can fix them even if they aren't familiar with books. If you don't see something that looks like this, then all problems have been fixed. (Please strike articles from this list as the problems get fixed.)
Also, the {{saved book}} template has been updated to allow editors to specify the default covers of books (title, subtitle, cover-image, cover-color), and gives are preview of the default cover on the book's page. An example of such a cover is found on the right. Ideally, all books in Category:Book-Class Japan-related articles should have covers.
This message was delivered by User:EarwigBot, at 22:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC), on behalf of Headbomb. Headbomb probably isn't watching this page, so if you want him to reply here, just leave him a message on his talk page. EarwigBot(owner • talk)22:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-07T22:31:00.000Z","author":"EarwigBot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EarwigBot-2010-04-07T22:31:00.000Z-Notification_regarding_Wikipedia-Books","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-08T19:48:00.000Z-EarwigBot-2010-04-07T22:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"User:EarwigBot"}}-->
These have all been fixed. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe19:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-08T19:48:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-08T19:48:00.000Z-EarwigBot-2010-04-07T22:31:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
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Was I correct to add a voiceless diacritic to the [ɯ] in tsunami? ― ___A._di_M. (formerly Army1987) 17:32, 8 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-08T17:32:00.000Z","author":"A. di M.","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-A._di_M.-2010-04-08T17:32:00.000Z-Is_the_u_in_tsunami_voiceless?","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-08T19:10:00.000Z-A._di_M.-2010-04-08T17:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"___"}}-->
No. It is not an unvoiced vowel. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe19:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-08T19:10:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-08T19:10:00.000Z-A._di_M.-2010-04-08T17:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-08T19:10:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
It's said like a clipped double "o" in English. It's a long "u" sound. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe01:32, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-08T19:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T09:24:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z","c-A._di_M.-2010-04-09T09:13:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
By 'clipped double "o"' you mean ʊ as in "foot", right? Indeed, by taking a look at the diagram in Japanese phonology#Vowel I'd argue that ʊ̜ would be a better way to transcribe that, but I was following Wikipedia:IPA for Japanese which suggests u or ɯ. Not sure what you mean by "long", is that つう?
No, "long" as in "brute" (as opposed to the "short" one as in "butter"). This "long" doesn't refer to the length of time used to say the sound, but to the sound of it. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe09:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T09:24:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T09:24:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
Anyway, my original question was about the voicedness, not the quality or length. Oda Mari posted a link on my talk page where, to my hears, it sounds voiceless, although with the speaker talking that fast I'm not sure. And the rules at Japanese phonology#Devoicing didn't help me. (Does /n/ count as voiceless? Articulatorily it isn't, but it's written without a dakuten... And is there a downstep in tsunami? Where can I look that up? Is it a dialect thing?) Anyway, for now I've removed that voiceless ring. ― ___A._di_M. (formerly Army1987) 09:13, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T09:13:00.000Z","author":"A. di M.","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-A._di_M.-2010-04-09T09:13:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T01:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T09:24:00.000Z-A._di_M.-2010-04-09T09:13:00.000Z"],"displayName":"___"}}-->
I listened to that and it's not unvoiced or voiceless. He very clearly pronounces the "u". It's hard to hear, though, because the "u" is not said for a very long period of time due to his speed of speaking. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe09:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T09:24:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T09:24:00.000Z-A._di_M.-2010-04-09T09:13:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
come up with a better name for Nohgyosha kobetsu shotoku hosho seido? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 15:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Kintetsubuffalo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-09T15:38:00.000Z-Can_we...","replies":["c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T16:01:00.000Z-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-09T15:38:00.000Z","c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T17:11:00.000Z-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-09T15:38:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Chris (\u30af\u30ea\u30b9 \u2022 \u30d5\u30a3\u30c3\u30c1\u30e5)"}}-->
Ugh, what a gross article. All of those inline {{nihongo}} templates are really distracting. I've tried looking at some English articles, but I can't find any that directly mention that policy. :/ — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)16:01, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T16:01:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T16:01:00.000Z-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-09T15:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Kay, I've had some more time to look around. This article describes it as a farmer compensation policy. This article describes it as "individual household income compensation system", which is a literal translation. So maybe like, Farmer income compensation system or Farmer compensation policy? I'm not happy with either, but... — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)17:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T17:11:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T17:11:00.000Z-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-09T15:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T18:31:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T17:11:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think something like Farmer Household Earnings Compensation System would work. Even sounds "official". ^_^ ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe18:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T18:31:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T18:31:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T17:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T18:57:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T18:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
Heh. Yeah, I think I agree with that. — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)18:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T18:57:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-09T18:57:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T18:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The Democratic Party ["of Japan" if you insist] called it "individual (household) income support system [for agriculture]" on their en-website and in their en-manifesto. After all, it’s their policy initiative and en-WP uses the English self-descriptions by Japanese institutions (instead of translations of Japanese names) in other areas as well. --Asakura Akira (talk) 19:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T19:12:00.000Z","author":"Asakura Akira","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Asakura_Akira-2010-04-09T19:12:00.000Z-Can_we...","replies":["c-Cs32en-2010-04-09T22:05:00.000Z-Asakura_Akira-2010-04-09T19:12:00.000Z"]}}-->
The name probably needs to reflect that the scheme covers agriculture, forestry and fishery. Maybe we would need to leave out all three words, but just referring to agriculture might misrepresent the scheme. Cs32enTalk to me22:05, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T22:05:00.000Z","author":"Cs32en","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cs32en-2010-04-09T22:05:00.000Z-Asakura_Akira-2010-04-09T19:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-09T23:22:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-09T22:05:00.000Z"]}}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Cs32en-2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Potentially_dubious_edits_at_Azuma_Koshiishi-2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cs32en-2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z-Potentially_dubious_edits_at_Azuma_Koshiishi"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Potentially dubious edits at Azuma Koshiishi","linkableTitle":"Potentially dubious edits at Azuma Koshiishi"}-->
Can someone have a quick look at these three edits at Azuma Koshiishi? Cs32enTalk to me21:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z","author":"Cs32en","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cs32en-2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z-Potentially_dubious_edits_at_Azuma_Koshiishi","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-09T22:24:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
It seems to be true regardless of whether it is appropriate or not. See 「赤いシーラカンス」といわれる「輿石東」の手下人生 Excite news. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-09T22:24:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-09T22:24:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-09T21:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cs32en-2010-04-10T00:08:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-09T22:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
The wording "is a typical ... leader-turned-pol", in my view, is not really encyclopedic language, regardless of what the source says. It should be paraphrased in a different way, using neutral language. I'll leave a note at the article's talk page. Cs32enTalk to me00:08, 10 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-10T00:08:00.000Z","author":"Cs32en","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cs32en-2010-04-10T00:08:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-09T22:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-10T00:23:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-10T00:08:00.000Z"]}}-->
Agree. Why don't you edit the article directly. I don't think it is disputable. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:23, 10 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-10T00:23:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-10T00:23:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-10T00:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I don't want to replace a wrongly worded sentence with a sentence that would be stylistically o.k., but factually wrong. So it's best if someone who is fluent in Japanese looks at the issue. I'll just remove the dubious wording now. Cs32enTalk to me
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-List_of_Japanese_steam_battleships-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z-List_of_Japanese_steam_battleships"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"List of Japanese steam battleships","linkableTitle":"List of Japanese steam battleships"}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-List_of_Japanese_steam_battleships-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z-List_of_Japanese_steam_battleships"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"List of Japanese steam battleships","linkableTitle":"List of Japanese steam battleships"}-->
The "mergist" who "merged" List of Japanese steam battleships to List of Japanese battleships only left an edit summary of "merge" without actually doing anything, and leaving all the information behind. Admittedly, some of the info had been merged earlier by other people, but alot was not, and none of the bluelinks were transferred on top of the black non-linked text.
Someone might actually want to complete the merge.
65.94.253.16 (talk) 08:10, 10 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z","author":"65.94.253.16","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z-List_of_Japanese_steam_battleships","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-10T08:40:00.000Z-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z"]}}-->
They are actually merged. List of Japanese steam battleships has a redirect template only. You are looking at redirected List of Japanese battleships. -- Phoenix7777 (talk) 08:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-10T08:40:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-10T08:40:00.000Z-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T08:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T13:36:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-10T08:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
It doesn't really matter if one is redirected to the other, since the edit history reveals the pre-redirection version of the article, which shows that the merge was not completed. The only thing the "mergist" did was delete the merge template [5] and redirect the other article to it.
The "steam" article has many blue links, and some ships that are not on the non-steam article.
65.94.253.16 (talk) 13:36, 10 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-10T13:36:00.000Z","author":"65.94.253.16","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T13:36:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-10T08:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-11T00:01:00.000Z-65.94.253.16-2010-04-10T13:36:00.000Z"]}}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject","h-Another_question-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject-2010-04-18T13:22:00.000Z"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Help with article on Japanese subject","linkableTitle":"Help with article on Japanese subject"}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject","h-Another_question-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject-2010-04-18T13:22:00.000Z"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Help with article on Japanese subject","linkableTitle":"Help with article on Japanese subject"}-->
I am trying to get Masako Katsura to featured article level. I've gone as far as I can with English Language sources, but there has to be many in Japanese, probably with a lot of vital information not in any of the English sources. I could really use the help of someone fluent in Japanese who has a research skillset. The easy stuff first: I'd like to place her written Japanese name in proper form at the start of the article. I got this: の検索結果 from some Wikipedia mirror Japanese site. I have no idea if it's correct or even that I identified the correct part the page that displayed her name. I'd like to place right after her Latin character name something similar to the form that follows, grabbed from another article:
More involved help: it would be wonderful if someone would gather together a list of reliable sources available online, if there are any, which discuss her. It is pretty much impossible for me to do so with the language barrier. Once I have a list, I can use machine translation as best I can to see what they say and if they have any additional information and can ask specific questions here or elsewhere if I identity something to add to make sure I get it right. Of course, anyone who wants to go further and contribute to the article is welcome, but I would ask that anything you add be cited to a reliable source in an inline citation.
Finally, I am looking at a minimum for the following (citable) information all of which, is far more likely to be available from Japanese sources than English: Her exact date of birth, where she was born and lived as a child (anything on her childhood prior to 14 really) her family's details, their parents and siblings names etc., and finally, her date of death or confirmation that she's still alive and where she lives now (she would be 96-97 years old, having moved back to Japan from the U.S. in about 1990). Finally, note that apparently she and her sister toured many parts of Asia giving exhibitions in 1929 and later and it might be that she has mention in other Asian language sources, especially Chinese.
Thanks for any help.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z-Help_with_article_on_Japanese_subject","replies":["c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:02:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hmm. Well, first, "検索結果" means "search results", so that's not right. I see there's no Japanese article on her which makes this even more difficult. After looking around quite a bit, I found this page, which writes her name as 桂 正子 (Katsura Masako). It mentions that she played billiards in Ginza, which is in Tokyo and seems to match up with the text in the article here. I'm not 100% sure it's absolutely correct, but that's about the best I can do. I'd imagine Oda Mari will have something to add to this. — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)03:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T03:02:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:02:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T02:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sushiya-2010-04-11T03:18:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:02:00.000Z"]}}-->
It seems that her name is 桂マサ子 with many search hits. --Sushiya (talk) 03:18, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T03:18:00.000Z","author":"Sushiya","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sushiya-2010-04-11T03:18:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:02:00.000Z","replies":["c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:46:00.000Z-Sushiya-2010-04-11T03:18:00.000Z"]}}-->
Perhaps she was born 正子 and then popularly wrote it as マサ子? — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)03:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T03:46:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:46:00.000Z-Sushiya-2010-04-11T03:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T04:11:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:46:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hey guys. Thanks for looking and adding her name to the article. When she was on What's My Line? in 1959 she signed in using Japanese characters. I had the episode recorded on my DVR but then the box broke, or I would have been able to work from it. Just knowing her name will allow me to search the Japanese Google web, books and news and do some machine translations (though sometimes the translations are just awful). I would probably put in the search "ビリヤード"; can you confirm for me that that is the common name of billiards?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T04:11:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T04:11:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-11T03:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T04:11:00.000Z"]}}-->
Not just awful. I've seen cases in which a seemingly innocuous machine translation came up with almost the exact opposite meaning, compared with the original sentence. Wrongly translated Japanese dates are another problem. Cs32enTalk to me04:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z","author":"Cs32en","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T04:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T05:04:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z","c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T05:10:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z","c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T06:16:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think 桂マサ子 is correct. There are four books written by her in National Diet Library. It's not unusual to use katakan in first names. Oda Mari (talk) 05:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T05:04:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T05:04:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
撞球/dōkyū is billiards in kanji. Oda Mari (talk) 05:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T05:10:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T05:10:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I found these. Video . Images:[6], With K. Matsuyama, and With her sister Noriko (left). These images might be copy-right free. Oda Mari (talk) 06:16, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T06:16:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T06:16:00.000Z-Cs32en-2010-04-11T04:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T06:16:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thanks Oda Mari. The video was already the sole external link in the article. The first two image links lead me to blank search pages in Yahoo Japan; can you fix the links? For the last, is there anything on the page providing information on the copyright? By the way, is any of the text of her books viewable on the Japanese Google books? In just a few lines she might clear up all manner of mysteries about her life, unreflecting in the 600 or so newspaper articles I've read on her in English. It appears to me from translating the book search page you provided earlier that there are only two books, but each has two editions; is that correct? Also, would a proper translation of the book titles be: 1) 撞球上達法 "Improve Your Billiards"? and 2) 撞球入門 "Introduction to Billiards"?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 08:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T06:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T09:48:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z","c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T10:13:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z"]}}-->
As for the two links, it seems they turned out to be as I suspected. Sorry. I don't know why, but they do not like to be linked. Try this. Please copy the addresses below, paste them to your browser's window and go. http://park.geocities.jp/matukinrei/fhoto/mk.jpg http://park.geocities.jp/matukinrei/fhoto/km.JPG As for the third link, they say the site is copyrighted. But only the old image, not the whole poster, might be copyright free. Please see my post at the very bottom of the thread. I don't think any text in her her books is viewable. I try to find it later though. As for her books, they are [7], [8], [9], and [10]. I'm not sure these four are different books or any of them is a reprint. I'll call the library and ask them. Please wait for a while. Oda Mari (talk) 09:48, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T09:48:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T09:48:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The text of her books are not found on the Google Books. Oda Mari (talk) 10:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-11T10:13:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T10:13:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-11T08:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-12T09:18:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T10:13:00.000Z"]}}-->
I called the library. They didn't know for sure but they said probably the two 撞球入門 ( 1956 and 1960) are is the reprint of 撞球入門 (1952). And 撞球上達法 (1960) is the reprint of 撞球上達法 (1956). I try to check further. The translation of the titles is OK. Oda Mari (talk) 09:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-12T09:18:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-12T09:18:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-11T10:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-13T03:41:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-12T09:18:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thanks for all the help thus far. I have added the two books (diff).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-13T03:41:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-13T03:41:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-12T09:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Another question
The link provided, http://www.billiardwave.com/tv/2002/98main.html implies to me that she is deceased. "Memorial" is usually used in English only with respect to honoring the memory of a deceased subject. I have not been able to confirm whether Ms. Katsura is alive or dead. Is there anything on this page that indicates she is deceased, other than the use of this word? Machine translation of the text of the page is quite baffling.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-18T13:22:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-18T13:22:00.000Z-Another_question","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-18T13:39:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-18T13:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
There is a description "故桂マサ子" (The late Masako Katsura) below the picture. It confirms she is deceased. -- Phoenix7777 (talk) 13:39, 18 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-18T13:39:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-18T13:39:00.000Z-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-18T13:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-18T13:54:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-18T13:39:00.000Z"]}}-->
I've heard she died about 20 years ago. Her sister Noriko and Noriko's son who was also a billiard player are dead. Oda Mari (talk) 13:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-18T13:54:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-18T13:54:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-18T13:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-18T15:06:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-18T13:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thanks again. I have added detail on her death to the article using the advertisement and the translation of "the late...", and am using the form from MOS:DOB for her death date: "after 1990".--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-18T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-18T15:06:00.000Z-Oda_Mari-2010-04-18T13:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
You guys know better than I do, please give this one a look-see. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 12:04, 12 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-12T12:04:00.000Z","author":"Kintetsubuffalo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-12T12:04:00.000Z-Marebito","replies":[],"displayName":"Chris (\u30af\u30ea\u30b9 \u2022 \u30d5\u30a3\u30c3\u30c1\u30e5)"}}-->
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Please take a look at the article List of Japanese inventions. User:Jmcw37 removed Karate and Okinawan martial arts saying "excessive nationalism". -- Phoenix7777 (talk) 08:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-15T08:40:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-15T08:40:00.000Z-List_of_Japanese_inventions","replies":[]}}-->
There is a rough summary of the development of Japanese temple architecture from the Asuka to Edo period. A shortened version of this text is found in List of National Treasures of Japan (temples) for which I wrote it. However the summary is more general and might be useful for other articles as well (e.g. Buddhist temples in Japan). If you like it, feel free to copy it from my user-space to any appropriate article. bamse (talk) 17:20, 15 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-15T17:20:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-15T17:20:00.000Z-Stuff","replies":[]}}-->
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Chinese character redirects being speedily deleted
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As Japan uses some Chinese characters, I think some of them will probably also get deleted in such a manner.
70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-16T05:01:00.000Z","author":"70.29.208.247","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-70.29.208.247-2010-04-16T05:01:00.000Z-Chinese_character_redirects_being_speedily_deleted","replies":[]}}-->
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Please come participate in the move discussion at Talk:Seki Kōwa#Move discussion. Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe18:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-19T18:02:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-19T18:02:00.000Z-Move_discussion_at_Talk:Seki_K\u014dwa","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
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can we start an article on Masaki Inayoshi (ja:稲吉 正樹) of G.Communication? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 17:47, 21 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-21T17:47:00.000Z","author":"Kintetsubuffalo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-21T17:47:00.000Z-Since_Geos_went_bankrupt_today...","replies":["c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-21T18:01:00.000Z-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-21T17:47:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Chris (\u30af\u30ea\u30b9 \u2022 \u30d5\u30a3\u30c3\u30c1\u30e5)"}}-->
Is that necessary? Seems Inayoshi is only notable as the CEO of G.Communication. I'd rather see a redirect from Masaki Inayoshi -> G.Communication. — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)18:01, 21 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-21T18:01:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-21T18:01:00.000Z-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-21T17:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The Yayoi period article uses different dates (500 BC to 300 AD) than Template:History of Japan (400 BC to 250 AD). I am aware that these dates are not very accurate but shouldn't we be at least consistent in wikipedia? bamse (talk) 18:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-22T18:22:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-22T18:22:00.000Z-Consistency","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-22T20:34:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-22T18:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
We should be consistent. Which dates are supported by the best sources? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe20:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-22T20:34:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-22T20:34:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-22T18:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bamse-2010-04-22T22:22:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-22T20:34:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
Not sure what the best sources are. From what I read, the dates are somewhat debated and also depend on the definition (first rice cultivation or first metal tools, etc). Furthermore there appears to be a geographic variation, because the technology that defines the Yayoi period (metal casting and maybe rice cultivation) was introduced first in Kyushu (?) and spread from there to Honshu and so on. In my opinion the most correct way would be to (i) indicate (how?) in the template that all dates up to the Kofun period are approximate and (ii) discuss in the period articles the variations. bamse (talk) 22:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-22T22:22:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-22T22:22:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-22T20:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-22T23:46:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-22T22:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
So a quick look at some sources...
The Cambridge history of Japan says that the Yayoi period "corresponds roughly to the.. Han dynasties of China (206 BC to AD 220), although Yayoi began somewhat earlier and ending a century or more later."
Obviously we're not trying to rewrite history here, but I think somewhere around 300 BC to 300 AD is about right. The 500 BC seems too early. — HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!)23:46, 22 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-22T23:46:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-22T23:46:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-22T22:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bamse-2010-04-23T13:59:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-22T23:46:00.000Z"]}}-->
Charles T. Keally says: "Traditionally, the period is dated 300 B.C. to A.D. 300." but also says that both start and end date are pushed back according to more recent finds/data: something like 400 BC to 250 AD
bamse (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-23T13:59:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-23T13:59:00.000Z-HelloAnnyong-2010-04-22T23:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-24T03:25:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-23T13:59:00.000Z"]}}-->
It seems that ca.300 BC to ca. 300 AD is the most common range. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe03:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-24T03:25:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-24T03:25:00.000Z-Bamse-2010-04-23T13:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bamse-2010-04-26T19:03:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-24T03:25:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
I changed the dates in the template, in Yayoi period and in Jōmon period to "300 BC to ca. 300 AD". bamse (talk) 19:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-26T19:03:00.000Z","author":"Bamse","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Bamse-2010-04-26T19:03:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-24T03:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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I hope I'm not becoming a pain. The help I've received is much appreciated. I had hoped there would be more available in Japanese online sources but it is what it is. My previous questions were more global. I have a specific issue: Her date of death. It's such a significant fact, and it's lack really hurts the article. I was hoping placing focus on the issue alone, someone might know of a way to learn the information. It certainly doesn't appear to be available from general search engines. However, I know of multiple ways to find out death dates in the U.S. for people that you would not get from a search engine. For example, there the Social Security Death Index, there's a website called find-a-grave, and there's also skip tracing services. I imagine there's a few ways to do this for Japanese persons as well. Anyway, if anyone has an idea I would be grateful.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-24T23:41:00.000Z","author":"Fuhghettaboutit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fuhghettaboutit-2010-04-24T23:41:00.000Z-One_more_question:_Masako_Katsura","replies":[]}}-->
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I am not sure which is correct. The company's official English translation name is "AEON CO.,LTD" according the report submitted to the Japanese Financial Services Agency's EDINET (Not directly accessible), although WP:COMMONNAME reject the use of the official name. However all the description in the homepage is "AEON" except for the logo. Is this simply a logo or the most common name?
―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-25T00:18:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T00:18:00.000Z-\u00c6on_or_Aeon","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-25T00:25:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T00:18:00.000Z"]}}-->
The copyright notice at the bottom of the page uses "Æon" (although it's in all caps). As long as the appropriate redirects are in place, it should be fine where it is. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe00:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-25T00:25:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-25T00:25:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T00:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T01:19:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-25T00:25:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
There are fillings to SEC with the name "AEON CO., LTD" and "AEON USA INC".[11] Probably the company wish to use "Æon" as its official name. However the basic Latin alphabet character set does not allow the use of "Æ", so the company use "Aeon" reluctantly. Anyway still remains the question which is the best name for the title.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 01:19, 25 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-25T01:19:00.000Z","author":"Phoenix7777","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T01:19:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-04-25T00:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-26T05:46:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T01:19:00.000Z"]}}-->
A logo is a logo. See Toys "R" Us and East Japan Railway Company. JR East does not use 鉄 in their logo. I don't think people use the letter "Æ" or "金＋矢" when they write or type the company's name. As for the common name vs official name issue, I think it should apply when the names are different. In this case, it's a matter of design or character. So I prefer AEON to ÆON. Oda Mari (talk) 05:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-26T05:46:00.000Z","author":"Oda Mari","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Oda_Mari-2010-04-26T05:46:00.000Z-Phoenix7777-2010-04-25T01:19:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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Through Google Labs, I found Google マップ - 地図検索 "See place names of the world in Japanese." -- Wavelength (talk) 02:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-26T02:00:00.000Z","author":"Wavelength","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wavelength-2010-04-26T02:00:00.000Z-Google_Maps_in_Japanese","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-26T02:07:00.000Z-Wavelength-2010-04-26T02:00:00.000Z"]}}-->
Yup. You can achieve the same thing even without adding the ?hl=ja. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe02:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-26T02:07:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-26T02:07:00.000Z-Wavelength-2010-04-26T02:00:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
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__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-KrebMarkt-2010-02-03T07:41:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-BLP_list_update-2010-02-03T07:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z-BLP_list_update","h-One_more_RFC-BLP_list_update-2010-02-03T07:41:00.000Z"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"BLP list update","linkableTitle":"BLP list update"}-->
I've added every BLP I could find through January 2009. Just one more year to go and I'll have the big list caught up to today. We need a lot of people to work on these, so if you can start with the oldest ones and work forward in time, that would be awesome. We just need 2-3 references for each one (though 1-2 will do in a pinch to get the article off this list). Thanks for all your help! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe23:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z-BLP_list_update","replies":["c-Nihonjoe-2010-02-22T08:49:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z","c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-16T06:41:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
Okay, I finally finished going through everything. You can find the big list here. I strongly encourage anyone with any amount of spare time to help with as many as you can, whether that be one or 100. Starting with the oldest is best as they are the most likely to be deleted first if they don't get any refs. If you need one undeleted, please let me know, but focusing on those which haven't yet been deleted will be the most effective. Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe08:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-22T08:49:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-02-22T08:49:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
Still looking for help on clearing these out. The big list is here. Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe06:41, 16 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-16T06:41:00.000Z","author":"Nihonjoe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nihonjoe-2010-04-16T06:41:00.000Z-Nihonjoe-2010-02-08T23:58:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u65e5\u672c\u7a63"}}-->
One more RFC
This in not the fellow up from the unsourced BLP RFC but a brand new spin-out one on unsourced content in BLP article.
Cordially --KrebMarkt07:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-03T07:41:00.000Z","author":"KrebMarkt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KrebMarkt-2010-02-03T07:41:00.000Z-One_more_RFC","replies":[]}}-->
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Please help clean this turkey up. I gave it a rename and added a see also section, but... --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 07:02, 30 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-30T07:02:00.000Z","author":"Kintetsubuffalo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kintetsubuffalo-2010-04-30T07:02:00.000Z-Japanese_propaganda_during_World_War_II","replies":[],"displayName":"Chris (\u30af\u30ea\u30b9 \u2022 \u30d5\u30a3\u30c3\u30c1\u30e5)"}}-->
![[6]](http://park.geocities.jp/matukinrei/fhoto/mk.jpg){kind=link}
