Template talk:Underground laboratories

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Edit discussion: Should "Kolar" be struck through?

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In this edit, User:Brycehughes removed the strikethrough on the grounds that it is ugly and makes the navbox hard to read. (Much discussion at User_talk:Brycehughes#Template:Underground laboratories.) I think it's a bit ugly, but neatly and compactly expresses "not any more".

Some options that were discussed:

  • Use a more legible style than strikethrough to mark the laboratory as closed.
  • Combine "closed" and "not open yet" into a single "not operating" category indicated by italics.
  • Drop the link to Kolar completely. That has its merits, depending on the purpose of the navbox: is it more a list of laboratories, or of Wikipedia articles?

But basically, this is an aesthetic judgement, not something that can be decided conclusively. I put it in there originally, so obviously I like it that way, but I don't own the template. So additional opinions are solicited. (Since I don't think this template or talk page gets a lot of traffic, a WP:3O request will be submitted.)

I do request that it anyone is inspired to WP:Be bold and make a change, they change the documentation to match. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 06:26, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-05-03T06:26:00.000Z","author":"71.41.210.146","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-71.41.210.146-2015-05-03T06:26:00.000Z-Edit_discussion:_Should_\"Kolar\"_be_struck_through?","replies":[]}}-->

Response to third opinion request:
The strike is confusing. Since Kolar is no longer an underground laboratory it should not be included on the template. Consider if there may be a need for a list of former underground laboratories. Atsme☯Consult 17:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-05-04T17:55:00.000Z","author":"Atsme","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Atsme-2015-05-04T17:55:00.000Z-Edit_discussion:_Should_\"Kolar\"_be_struck_through?","replies":[]}}-->

Interesting! I wasn't expecting that to be the preferred option. That wouldn't be a very interesting list, as Kolar is the only underground laboratory of any note that's been closed. (It's actually barely a laboratory, but was what passed for one in its day.) I'll allow a few more days for others to chime in, then make the edit. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 01:30, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-05-05T01:30:00.000Z","author":"71.41.210.146","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-71.41.210.146-2015-05-05T01:30:00.000Z-Edit_discussion:_Should_\"Kolar\"_be_struck_through?","replies":[]}}-->

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Edit discussion: Should "Fréjus" be listed?

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In this edit, User:Brycehughes simplified "LSM/Fréjus" to just "LSM". (The first half used to be a red link, but Brycehughes recently created a Modane Underground Laboratory article.) I went and changed it back to LSM/Fréjus. There was a lot of discussion.

I'm really torn. Arguments for including Fréjus:

  • The lab is also very commonly referred to as "Fréjus underground laboratory" or "Frejus" for short, even on official web sites. Per WP:OFFICIAL, WP uses the most common name(s), even if they're not the official ones.
  • That usage appears to be ongoing, not just historical.
    • This is unlike the names "DUSEL" and "Homestake"; current usage is clearly shifting to SURF.
  • There's no obvious connection between the names "LSM" and "Fréjus".
    • Although LNGS is commonly referred to as "Gran Sasso", there's less need for an alternate listing because of "GS" in the initialism and "Gran Sasso" in the mouseover text.
  • "/Fréjus" is pretty short, so it doesn't take a huge benefit to keep the cost/benefit ratio good.

Arguments for using "LSM" only:

  • A navbox is space constrained.
  • For consistency: give each lab one name.
  • It is the official name, and also commonly used.
  • As User:Brycehughes pointed out, the box also includes flags; someone looking for "Fréjus" would probably think to try the only lab in France.

That last point is a good one, and has me hanging in the balance. Other opinions are very much requested! 71.41.210.146 (talk) 06:26, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-05-03T06:26:00.000Z","author":"71.41.210.146","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-71.41.210.146-2015-05-03T06:26:00.000Z-Edit_discussion:_Should_\"Fr\u00e9jus\"_be_listed?","replies":[]}}-->

Response to third opinion request:
The argument for retaining Fréjus is convincing. Retain LSM/Fréjus Atsme☯Consult 17:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-05-04T17:59:00.000Z","author":"Atsme","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Atsme-2015-05-04T17:59:00.000Z-Edit_discussion:_Should_\"Fr\u00e9jus\"_be_listed?","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you. This is the current situation, so no action is required. If anyone else would like to chime in on the subject, it's not permanently closed. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 01:53, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-05-05T01:53:00.000Z","author":"71.41.210.146","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-71.41.210.146-2015-05-05T01:53:00.000Z-Edit_discussion:_Should_\"Fr\u00e9jus\"_be_listed?","replies":[]}}-->

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Addition discussion: Kimballton Underground Research Facility

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I saw it in the article for Kimballton, Virginia and it has a web site: http://www.phys.vt.edu/~kimballton/. Apparently it has 1450 mwe shielding. It's located in a working limestone mine, which leaves nice clean dry chambers behind, and has drive-in access. The facility was very cheap ($200K); it mostly consisted of installing a dust-proof building inside some pre-existing open space.

But it doesn't have an article yet. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 15:49, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-08-18T15:49:00.000Z","author":"71.41.210.146","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-71.41.210.146-2015-08-18T15:49:00.000Z-Addition_discussion:_Kimballton_Underground_Research_Facility","replies":["c-71.41.210.146-2015-08-18T19:10:00.000Z-71.41.210.146-2015-08-18T15:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, in the spirit of WP:Be Bold, I added it. It's currently named "Kimballton"; "KURF" is another alternative. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 19:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-08-18T19:10:00.000Z","author":"71.41.210.146","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-71.41.210.146-2015-08-18T19:10:00.000Z-71.41.210.146-2015-08-18T15:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->